Weird noise at cold startup | FerrariChat

Weird noise at cold startup

Discussion in '360/430' started by ferralc, Apr 14, 2016.

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  1. ferralc

    ferralc Formula 3
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    #1 ferralc, Apr 14, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2016
    Every time I start my car from dead cold I hear a weird rattling noise that eventually stops after the car idles back to normal, but I am wondering if this is something that I need to address because it only happens at the first start of the day and I cannot reproduce it after driving it to a shop unless I leave the car there overnight.
    It starts right away and increases and becomes really obvious at around the 30 second mark for about 15 seconds and then it goes away, any ideas?? Thanks guys!!!


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWujaAXbKks
     
  2. Red 27

    Red 27 Formula 3
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    I would have it checked out at the shop ASAP. Something is not right.
     
  3. MalcQV

    MalcQV F1 Rookie

    Oct 11, 2004
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    My previous car an F355 had a similar sound. I mentioned it at the specialist but I was told it was something of nothing. Better to be safe though.
     
  4. cm2

    cm2 Formula 3

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    I was going to say it sounded like intake noise from a leak in the intake after the mafs somewhere... But then it sounded to get faster and more rattle-y for some reason.
     
  5. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Feb 24, 2007
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    Only at overnight cold start? I would guess the smog air injection pump.
     
  6. ferralc

    ferralc Formula 3
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    Yes only after the overnight start and only when the car is revving higher, once the idle normalizes (after a minute or so) the rattling noise goes away (like at the end of the video) and it doesn't return until next day.
     
  7. mello

    mello F1 Veteran
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    Sounds like the hydraulic tappets (aka lifters) are charging up after a leak-down overnight. Did you use the proper oil? What brand?
     
  8. RedTaxi

    RedTaxi F1 Rookie
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    Isn't there a flap or linkage or something in the intake plenum that is known to rattle?
     
  9. ferralc

    ferralc Formula 3
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    Yes the pennzoil platinum euro 5w-40 recommended by Ferrari, I changed the oil almost a year ago and back in March the dealer did a complimentary inspection of all the car and the technician said it had a little too much and he removed a bit.
     
  10. kommons

    kommons Karting

    Sep 30, 2013
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    That's not a healthy sound, it seems inconsistent as well. Is it possible to get a general location for the sound? It sound ominously like when my oil pump tensioner broke. Does it sound engine internal or upper plenum. Do you have a mechanic's stethoscope?
     
  11. ferralc

    ferralc Formula 3
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    I know it sounds pretty bad in the video but something as threatening can't just go away after 30 seconds and never come back until the car is dead cold again, that is why I don't believe is something that serious, I will leave the car for the annual service and have the shop keep it for a couple of days so they can reproduce it, at least is not a known serious issue (like the headers noise in 430s)
     
  12. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    A few causes I can think of. Can you localize it better? Under plenum? Air injection?

    If its the muffler bearing, just give it a squirt of elbow grease.. ;)
     
  13. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
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    #13 hessank, Apr 16, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
    How long between startups to produce your dead cold scenario?

    I would suggest splitting that time in half and see if it still happens(theory that the oil is draining and leaving the tappets dry. If it happens still when halved then split it another half.

    Also check the headers too as it is not uncommon on the 360s for them to crack where the secondary air tubes are welded to the primaries
     
  14. mello

    mello F1 Veteran
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    I had some sticky tappets on my C5 Corvette back when. I just threw in a can of engine flush and drove it a few hundred miles before an oil change. Miraculously, the sound disappeared. You might want to give it a try.
     
  15. ferralc

    ferralc Formula 3
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    I will buy everyone a round of drinks if I can fix this with an engine flush, I might give it a try before spending hours of labor chasing a ghost sound
     
  16. Fatty

    Fatty Karting

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    Sounds like the butterfly valve in the compensation duct. One or both screws could be getting loose. Get it checked out asap. Remove the left AFM, and stick in an extended mirror with a torch to have a look, if you are able to.
     
  17. ferralc

    ferralc Formula 3
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    A very good mechanic I know heard the noise and he said it is very typical for 360s to do that noise eventually, he said the fuel pressure pump has a valve that stops the fuel flow and it has a small leak and overnight it loses all the pressure, it sounds weird until the pump recovers all the pressure to supply fuel to all the cylinders.
    I am traveling right now so I don't have a chance to get it checked, I will ask the shop to take a look at my return when I do the annual service


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  18. Trouts10

    Trouts10 Karting

    Dec 2, 2015
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    I also have a similar sound at cold start up. It's noticeable for about 20-30 seconds, then disappears. The car had a full dealership inspection and service just before purchase, so I would like to think it was something they would address and correct if it was a problem or potential problem.

    It will be interesting to hear what your shop has to say about the noise. My Modena isn't due for fluid/oil service until November, so that's when I plan to have them check on the noise; unless, of course, it doesn't become a bigger issue before then.

    Hope we can get an update from you soon.
     
  19. BladeMD

    BladeMD Formula 3
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    I've read that a "ticking" sound could be a sign of the precats in the headers throwing shards, but I've never heard it personally.

    Id be interested in hearing how it differs from this, because it's exactly how I imagined it sounding.
     
  20. ferralc

    ferralc Formula 3
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    I will and post results
     
  21. ferralc

    ferralc Formula 3
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    That's what I thought but as I said before it is really weird it ceases the sound completely as soon as the idle returns to normal, I would guess the headers will keep making noise here and there.
     
  22. ferralc

    ferralc Formula 3
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    Can you please take a video and post it here so we can compare them??
     
  23. ferralc

    ferralc Formula 3
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    #23 ferralc, May 14, 2016
    Last edited: May 14, 2016
    I will bring my car to the annual service next week and to address this noise, so far I have two diagnosis of two different mechanics who watched the video, one says it could be the fuel pump that loses pressure overnight.
    The other one (which I believe is the most accurate one for the type of metal cracking/rattling noise) is "the secondary air system and thermal expansion of the headers" because once they are warmed up the noise goes away cleanly and it doesn't track with engine revs.
    I will know for sure next week, my question for you guys is if the headers are making noises when they are warning up does this mean they are about to fail or they just need to be adjusted??
    If this is the case I really want to change the headers to an aftermarket option but I have heard the smog shops in California are failing the visual test in every single car with aftermarket (shiny) parts inside the engine bay.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  24. RWP137

    RWP137 Formula 3

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    Grab a hose or tube and from your ear try and isolate the sound. I'd guess it's pieces of catalytic converter rattling around before things heat up. 355's-430's have cat issues.
     
  25. ferralc

    ferralc Formula 3
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    I used a stethoscope and I believe the noise comes from the left header ( my window of opportunity was pretty small)
    My guess is the catalytic converter "stone" inside the header is rattling

    I found this thread in *********** and it makes sense to me

    http://www.***********.com/#/forumsite/21041/topics/34442?page=1

    But why the sound would be completely gone after less than a minute? Do these "stones" expand with heat and stop rattling??

    If the header is the culprit does this merit a header change, is this the catastrophic header failure everyone talks about?
    Thanks
     

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