Never seen it done, but makes sense... it's the perfect location for a pulley. I suppose with some thought and work you could even put a fairly substantial twin screw supercharger back there, but blowing through a positive displacement supercharger has real problems... I suspect that you would have to rethink the throttle position on such a beast and end up with a single large throttle body or have a sufficient bypass (which would be substantial) on a supercharger large enough for the application. There is nothing that sounds as obnoxious and loud as a unthrottled twin screw supercharger. Think fire engine siren... they are brutally efficient when configured that way, but split intercooler tanks and all sorts of additional havoc.
Yes I remember seeing that someone had made a plate that sat at the rear bell housing. There was a pulley from the centre of the housing. For the life of me I can't remember were I saw it. But it was a good few years ago and I am 99% sure it was on this forum.
I have direct first hand in the trenches experience with developing a supercharger for a Ferrari model. I'll be the first to say it's a massive PITA and one will never ever recoup any R&D cost -ever! About 10yrs ago I went down that road on my Mondial but not with the intent on mfg or resealing it. But there was enough interest so I looked into it, unfortunately the biggest problems with keeping costs reasonable were finding a machine shop willing to make parts in exceedingly low qty and that for the 308/328 & Mondial Engine bays the variations in where things went and actual space within the frame moved around enough to be a headache for developing a 'kit'. Then Vortech stopped making the headunit as an off the shelf deal -custom only. So I moved over to Rotrex, vastly superior head unit but carries a vastly heavier price tag. Over the yrs I've looked at developing superchargers for most all the V8's upto the 360. Even worked out a new manifold design that would need to be cast for the 360 to run a whipple style blower. The 355 ITB plenum would probably hold to ~7psi beyond that???? so right off the bat the cost of a custom plenum in low volume production is going to be bonkers expensive. I'm currently investigating DLM plastics that would be perfect for this and avoids the cost of casting the part, however even then were still talking 5~6k for just a plenum! I don't see something like this being less then $15k I just don't, and even at that price point the R&D cost would never get cleared off the table. I've got thousands tied-up/lost in parts rotting away because machine shops don't make parts in 1's and 2's. Right now my biggest problem and major PITA is finding a reliable competent machine shop that can do small run production that doesn't cost you your firstborn. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to offer a supercharger setup for the 348/355. Just getting past the hurdles of low volume production and keeping the retail cost below 7k I don't see as feasible. Around 10k with the customer sorting out engine management on their own? maybe. Nick and I would also never offer anything for sale that hasn't been thoroughly tested and abused by us before going out to the public, trust me if we can break it! it goes back to the drawing board, if we can't, then it goes out to the public. Oh and we haven't even touched on the cylinder head mods needed to handle the heat of forced induction for long term reliability... Ouch to the pocket book.
See Markphd, i am not going mad 2008. It ran 2 cetoni and ZF sentrifugal-compressors. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I think that I know of a machine shop in Lancaster CA that might fit the bill. It's been a while, so I would have to see if he is still in business, but he specialized in small run production CNC.
One thing I have done learned meself over the years is when supercharging or turbo motors you have a fork in the road where you can go either direction. Engineered bulletproof or predetermined obsolescence Trends of today and most cost effective seems to be just run it until it blows then drop a new block in. Spending a few years of R&D gets very costly and the want it now factor is gone. If it finishes the race then pukes it's a good day
Sending out RFQ's today is quite effective. Some really good pricing on short run cnc and if you have NC code even better. I have a fadal 40-20 at the shop setup for carving graphite and much easier to send work out then change the setup
Funny, I did the equation and came to that conclusion with my Lotus. I went with a Revo 400 and a bunch of extra mods making as much power as that setup can make. I decided to leave the core engine and tranny (other than clutch) bone stock because of how damn cheap they were compared to the mods to bulletproof the engine. I ran it hard for 60k miles, sold it, and recently the new owner contacted me to ask about the vehicles history (there was a buyer between us) it now has about 80k and he autocrosses it, only fatality so far was a clutch! When you can replace the engine 10 times for the cost of building it, the engine becomes the disposable part of the platform.
If you are going to get ridiculous on this thread why stop with a clutch shaft driven supercharger...why not go all the way with this sorta set-up. Guaranteed it has never been done to a 355 and it is pretty dog-gone cheap. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsXWspo5hrc He also has some other radical contraptions to keep you busy after you've trashed your car. I'm kinda diggin this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y93MYaTx6M&index=1&list=PLGjbAdaOBLBnaHyo8G3xt7cVTg5asaR3L
One thing I discussed with Goth once was an electric powered supercharger that did not need anything other than a power source to run. You could essentially locate it anywhere since it isn't dependent upon exhaust gases or pulleys to drive it. The trick was to figure out a charging system for it, such as it's own battery that you charged up later. The battery selection would depend on how much output would be needed and it's duration. I think the boost would be light pressure, and you'd have to richen the mixture slightly in order to run with the stock ECU. Even 3 lbs. would be good for, what, 50 HP?
My CFD simulations indicate 0.78 PSI (air inlet ducting, filters, MAF, Resonator) costs ~30 HP Also note 3 PSI at the filter box inlet may only be 2.3 PSI at the input to the velocity stacks.
And how much power do you lose drawing through electric superchargers that are not being activated? May as well just go the leaf blower route at that point. Easy to route on a 2.7 car, just jam the outlets into the corner of the 1/4 windows.
When i posted the pictures i mistakenly said it was from a 355, it was in fact a 348, but the purpose was to find and show the pulley on the pumpkin. The car was from norway and was a running car with 550bhp. Would be interesting to know if its still running after 8 years. It does seem that while 355 owners are dreaming about power mods, the 348 guys are acually doing it. There seems to be quite a few turbo, supercharged, custum stacks and fettled pleniums giving good results. 348s are rocking these kind of mods. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Any idea if they built any ducting to that intercooler or is it effectively an interheater with the lid closed? ^^^
Definitely an interheater. I guess it could work if you're doing Underground Racing style night runs.
hey I think I remember you mentioning an electric SC a while back .... but as was mentioned by INTMD8 below .... flow momentum losses during inactivity would be unacceptable .... in addition, the current draw from a powerful enough electric motor to make good boost, would make the system very inefficient ..... +1 ............ I have seen a youtube vid showing some guys doing the leaf blower thing ... they gained a few HP on the dyno but they also threw off the MAF calibration and the car wouldn't run afterwards .... I believe they had to reset the ECU to get it running again ... looks pretty good ..... the 348 could use all the help it can get ...... the intercooler 'on top' position is not the best IMO, it would be getting a lot of exhaust heat rise through it .... they should have put the intercooler(s) in the rear wheel well, with a nice grill to protect from stones ......... IMO 355s are much better off being 'normally aspirated' with a well designed intake and exhaust ...
Hi goth, i dont know much about the above supercharged 348. I just remeberd it from years ago and found the pictures i had. I would agree with you about 355 are better of being normally aspirated, if there was 355s actually tuned to gain the same power as the tuned/turbo/supercharged 348s. All i really ever see is exhaust, cats and filter mods for the 355s and the gains are not really worth it IMO. What we need are after market cams ect, (like the ones in the michael schumacher 355 that revd to 10,000 RPM) but alas there arent any. Shame the factory did not mass produce them.
+1 ... other than the intercooler location .... that custom 348 twin supercharger mod shows very nice work ...... I would assume they used a good method of achieving proper A/F ratio as well ...... I agree 355 HP upgrades have been quite limited, especially on the intake side .... as many know, it takes a while to develop something decent for our cars ... I have had a monster 355 intake upgrade in the works for a few years now ... life just keeps getting in the way .... but I am stubborn and not giving up, till it is done ..... then we'll see what it does on the dyno .... As you mentioned, it would be nice to know what factory upgrades were made to the Schumacher 355 .... 10k RPM would sound euphoric on a 355 street engine! .... does anyone even know what happened to that 355? A nice well researched, in depth article would be a great read .....
