360 Spider 6-speed won't go in to gear when car gets hot. | Page 3 | FerrariChat

360 Spider 6-speed won't go in to gear when car gets hot.

Discussion in '360/430' started by nsortor12, Jun 26, 2014.

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  1. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

    May 12, 2007
    26,826
    England North West
    Full Name:
    Steve
    This has to be the first place to look at with this problem IMO.
     
  2. nsortor12

    nsortor12 Formula Junior

    Feb 1, 2013
    436
    Louisville
    Sorry to leave a lot of people waiting.

    Nope, no update. been extremely busy and the car has been sitting. Lots of travelling and the car will undergo it's surgery this winter when the major is being done.
     
  3. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 25, 2005
    8,682
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    John Zornes
    Those darn 6-speeds. So unreliable. ;)
     
  4. hairman

    hairman Karting

    Nov 25, 2013
    94
    south jersey
    Full Name:
    Dino
    hay you know what. I got a black plastic wall anchor and used a tile knife to spilt it in half. Then inserted it between the rubber block and the metal band closest to the treaded end. Took the little play I had is gone, was not much but it took it all out nice and tight. the way I like things. the plastic anchor should stay there fine. hay try it before you bust ass on replacing the end piece. could take off a vulcanize the metal band to the rubber also. that equals more work and I am not into it at 55 year old.
     
  5. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,452
    Dublin, Ireland
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Very good. More than one way to skin a cat for sure! :)
     
  6. sunir

    sunir Formula Junior

    Oct 30, 2014
    758
    MD
    Full Name:
    Sunir
    Good thread I read thru it, didn't understand all of it but parts #6, #14, and #66 end square rubber blocks seem to stick in mind as culprits should something like this happen in the future. My only thing is that is the SAME setup and parts for an F430 six speed manual as it is in the 360...with the same parts on the diagram as potential culprits?
     
  7. nsortor12

    nsortor12 Formula Junior

    Feb 1, 2013
    436
    Louisville
    Alright, winter is nearing its final stretch so I guess maybe it's time to make some time for some repairs.

    Not sure if I posted this here or not, but a shop called Forza Tuning looked at the car and said that the shifter was extremely stiff and that the shift cables had to be replaced all together.

    Has anyone ever heard anyone having to do something like this??

    Don't want to spend $1-2k for something that may be completely unnecessary.
     
  8. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,452
    Dublin, Ireland
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Replacement of the cables is not something which seems to be required frequently (at least among the members on here) but that's not to say yours does not. They could have been kinked at some time or routed too close to heat source etc. Sometimes you just gotta trust the mechanic's opinion and advice and go with it.
     
  9. DANCER308

    DANCER308 Formula Junior

    Oct 24, 2009
    935
    KY
    Full Name:
    Dan
    Nick, any update on taking the cable loose to check for tight cable or tight tranny?
     
  10. nsortor12

    nsortor12 Formula Junior

    Feb 1, 2013
    436
    Louisville
    Thanks to DANCER308 generously allowing me to use his lift, we've now been able narrow down the possible causes of the grinding.

    Lifted the car up, removed the bottom panels and disconnected the cables from the transmission. The gear stick moved like a stick of butter at that point. The bushing is not the issue, it's got to be that either the clutch is not fully disengaging between gear changes or there's a separate transmission issue because there is the same grinding.

    Is it possible that the clutch doesn't fully disengage? Coming out of first into second, there is a small grind sometimes, regardless of how far the clutch pedal is depressed.
     
  11. espvh

    espvh Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2005
    553
    NEW YORK!

    Or maybe because it's shifting like butter with the cables disconnected, the problem is between the shifter at one end and the cable ends at the other end.....bushings, lubrication, binding, adjustments......I was told those cables should run as straight as possible and that even a half turn on the cable adjustment can throw it off.....
     
  12. Performante

    Performante Karting

    Apr 14, 2015
    182
    KY
    Full Name:
    Nick
    It's been a while since I've last posted on this thread (I'm the OP under a different name now) and let's just say the car has not been fixed and has really been sitting mostly unused except for maybe three times since I last posted and still have not run into anybody who has heard of this issue or even had to deal with it.

    I'd like to soon write the final chapter to this book and start driving the Ferrari weekly again soon but that won't happen unless I can diagnose this. The mechanic here in Louisville is absolutely booked up for a decent bit and most likely won't be able to get to the car for months.

    So, here's what we've done so far:

    1. Replaced the bushing under the shifter
    2. Replaced the bushing at the end of the front-to-rear (as opposed to side-to-side) shift cable
    3. Pulled the cables off and determined they were fine

    No luck at all with anything really. The thing that I'm hearing more of now is the possibility of the clutch not fully disengaging with the pedal depressed which in turn wouldn't allow the transmission to fall into gear correctly.

    However, I guess that wouldn't explain the sheer difficulty in moving the shifter around while the car is on and with the clutch pedal fully depressed.

    It's still most just the top row (gears 1, 3, 5) that grind pretty regularly, but on Friday when the car was taken out, second was slipping out a bit.

    I've attached a video for reference for anyone trying to learn more about this never-ending saga. The car was sitting in the garage running but still cold. Clutch fully depressed, going through all the gears, and it gets ten-times worse when the car warms up. Keep in mind while watching that I was putting an immense amount of pressure on the shifter while attempting to move it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n0RaAGUmew
     
  13. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,452
    Dublin, Ireland
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Hard to believe you haven't resolved this. There are only a relatively limited number of possibilities.

    Have you thoroughly bled the hydraulic system of the clutch?

    When you have the car stationery on a smooth level surface and you engage first gear and depress the clutch and leave the brakes off does the car creep?
     
  14. Performante

    Performante Karting

    Apr 14, 2015
    182
    KY
    Full Name:
    Nick
    I feel the same way. It's just time constraints.

    The clutch has not been bled but I'm going to push to get that done hopefully this week or this weekend. It can't hurt. Sometimes the car can be forced into first but most of the time it'll either grind and reject the selection all together or simply pop out before the car starts to roll.
     
  15. Andrie

    Andrie Formula Junior

    Mar 6, 2015
    720
    Bay Area, CA
    Full Name:
    Andrie Hartanto
    Similar thing happened to me on a non ferrari car. It ended up to be clutch slave cylinder not operating properly when hot preventing the clutch to fully disengage.
     
  16. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,452
    Dublin, Ireland
    Full Name:
    Greg
    It sounds to me like it's gotta be the clutch failing to fully disengage. First place to start is by bleeding the system. After that you'd have to look at master or slave.

    If you're not up for the job yourself (with an assistant to work the pedal) any mechanic in any shop should be able to assist you. We're talking about a half hour max of general car maintenance work here. The bleed nipple can just about be accessed from the top so there's no need for the floor to be removed. The only issue is to be careful with the torque applied to the bleed nipple it's quite easy to over-tighten it and split the block in which it sits. Not a biggie but will definitely put the car off the road while you wait for the replacement part.

    You've gotta get this fixed and enjoy that car!
     
  17. robert344@verizon.net

    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 23, 2015
    168
    Full Name:
    robert
    How much would you sell the car for, as it sits ???
     
  18. robert344@verizon.net

    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 23, 2015
    168
    Full Name:
    robert
    Hi send pix and number to my e mail thanks
     
  19. Performante

    Performante Karting

    Apr 14, 2015
    182
    KY
    Full Name:
    Nick
    Did you end up having to just replace it?

    Completely agree! It needs to be enjoyable again. It's been much too long. Do you by chance have access to a link or digital copy of the service manual that used to be on FerrariDatabase.com? That could probably come in handy.

    I'll also give the forum a search to see if there's any additional info on there.

    Like I said, hopefully will be able to get this done soon.

    I appreciate the help! :D
     
  20. Performante

    Performante Karting

    Apr 14, 2015
    182
    KY
    Full Name:
    Nick
    Sorry, not interested.
     
  21. blackbolt22

    blackbolt22 F1 Veteran

    Sep 25, 2007
    5,751
    Boca Raton, FL
    Full Name:
    Mr. Anderson
    My 430 MT unit has similar problems. It won't shift well or at all when car gets hot. My indie mechanic has replaced clutch, slave cylinder, bushing, checked linkage, drained trannie fluid. He thinks coolant may be getting into transmission somehow. He's still working on the problem.
     
  22. Performante

    Performante Karting

    Apr 14, 2015
    182
    KY
    Full Name:
    Nick
    Hoping mine's simpler than that. But if your mechanic gives you any updates, make sure to put them here.
     
  23. espvh

    espvh Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2005
    553
    NEW YORK!
     
  24. blackbolt22

    blackbolt22 F1 Veteran

    Sep 25, 2007
    5,751
    Boca Raton, FL
    Full Name:
    Mr. Anderson
    Re: heat exchanger

    Coolant definitely in transmission oil . He ordered another part and it will be in this week. I will post when I know something.

    Good news is it shifts great when cold. His thoughts are transmission oil contaminated with coolant is losing its viscosity when hot causing the problem. There's not much left for it to be. I hope there is no damage but if so I would think it wouldn't ever shift right. Crossing fingers.
     
  25. blackbolt22

    blackbolt22 F1 Veteran

    Sep 25, 2007
    5,751
    Boca Raton, FL
    Full Name:
    Mr. Anderson
    Yep. It's been replaced. I'm picking up car this afternoon. I will give a report later. Coolant and oil was getting mixed together.
     

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