The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Thanks to both of you for finding those!

"Hold my calls, I will be out of the office, until Monday!"

I do have his cell number.....

 

Since my last post in this thread I have been corresponding with Ing. Forghieri. He had thought he identified Mr Glickenhaus's car as the car he took to Daytona for testing and modification in 1966 and therefore the 1967 Daytona winner by the positioning of the oil cooler. He had only glanced at it as a tourist at Amelia Island. He had not subjected the car to a technical analysis and he had not thoroughly examined the chassis. Mr Glickenhaus has sent him no documentation. Over the last weeks he has done quite a bit of research and has spoken to people in Modena about Tom Meade, Mike Parkes and David Piper etc.

After speaking to people regarding the above characters he thought it possible that Tom Meade had built the chassis along with chassis builders from Modena. Ing. Forghieri thought that only the front part of the chassis was from the "famous" P3 and could not say what percentage of the front part with the rear part being from another P3, but he didn't know the origin of it. That said he considered the car to be a replica as Ferrari had deleted the number 0846 and the Glickenhaus chassis has no number or the number 0003. He said that anyone can build a P4 but they will never be able to chose a number already cancelled by "mother" Ferrari.

As Ing. Forghieri had said he had identified the car as the Daytona winner by the positioning of the oil cooler, I sent him pictures of the front of the chassis of Mr Glickenhaus's car. After looking at the pictures he replied that this was not the car he took to Daytona for testing. It is therefore not the 1967 Daytona winner. Ing. Forghieri stated that he is in full agreement with Christian Huet about the chassis, who he had spoken to in the past.

I have since sent Ing. Forghieri some other pictures of the rear of the chassis as I have noticed some differences in its structure/build that I thought differed from that of a genuine P3 or 412P chassis. He has replied in writing that the rear of the chassis has been made new. The differences I identified would not have been made by the chassis builders that made the original Ferrari chassis and that the biggest differences are at the front of the chassis from a genuine one. Ing. Forghieri has therefore concluded that Mr Glickenhaus's car/chassisis is not original P4.

So here we have it:The Glickenhaus car does not contain parts of the original chassis of 0846 and and does not contain the chassis that was modified by Mauro Forghieri that went on to win the 1967 24 Hours of Daytona.

 

Meanwhile, 0846 is now sitting in The National Auto Museum of Italy where she was last displayed after she won the 24 Hours of Daytona.


via Tapatalk

 

Steven,

For the last time, all of what you recap is exactly what Jim maintains.

That when Piper ordered his 003s, Meade had access to the scrapped frame, and integrated the scrap into the "new 003s"..

So, you have told the story in your post very accurately, only to arrive at your predetermined position. John Houghtaling III is correct, no one is going to respect your "research" if the only intent is to sling mud on the car that RIGHT now is running in Sicily.

 

That knowledge left the planet, with Tom Meade's last breath.

His assistant posts here, he had some 308GTB bits, from an abandoned project.
I was going to buy the fuel tanks.

Have his info somewhere..

 

You obviously haven't read or understood all of my post. Read the later part. I am not slinging mud at all. That the car is running in Italy RIGHT now does not mean it is the car it is claimed to be. In fact the claim is WRONG.

 

Steve,

Good job of further researching this.

Jeff

 

Well, in Italy there are a lot of folks that can examine it, first hand....something, apparently, you are not inclined, or prepared to do???

Why would he sign a letter if he did not believe the facts??

I have a saying, you should heed it:
"You can only sell your integrity, one time, after that, it's worthless"....

 

I would call it "Badgering the witness", myself...but whatever.

 

I guess everyone misses the point (and yes, I DO have welding experience)...

If I was "building some P4s, from blue prints", and I knew of a piece of scrap that would save me, say 30% of my fabrication time, why wouldn't you go get it, chop off the bits that don't match "P4" configuration, and proceed???

Meade died without going on any "Certified, Notarized, Bible swear in procedure" (only the Bible would have been handy in the Hospital Library), but the story of Piper's three frame deal was pretty well known, at the time, around Maranello. Personally I am surprised Enzo himself did not hear of it, (he was eerily connected to what happened on Factory property) and stop the last two. These were made off site.

If Enzo Ferrari did not care, I don't either!

I can here the sound of miurasv's axe grinding all the way down in South Texas....Jim meanwhile is thrilling crowds of thousands, with "whatever it is", with Nino himself at the wheel.

 

It is not that what Mr. G has is not something very neat and enjoyable. The point is that is it really what he wants to claim it to be, as your own post propositions, has some bits that might possibly include original parts, are just a parts bin recreation.

Steve has calmly laid out a longer explanation from the exalted source. Rightly and deservedly so as exalted, but nonetheless a more complete picture of his testament is given.

By the way, you owe Rob another case or so of his choosing. If he and Jenny will switch over to wine I can make the selections on what you owe.

Jeff

 

He has to collect in person, ZIP code Houston!!

 

We have three or four breweries now, to choose from.
Budweiser really doesn't count......

 

I note that the second to last paragraph of Steve's post states that MF has replied in writing to state that "the rear part of the chassis is clearly new". Since this is all semi pointless semantics I believe that just this one passage PROVES that the front part is 100% original because otherwise he would have said "the entire chassis is clearly new". Case solved?

 

Nothing will ever be solved in the minds of certain people.

The rest of us are content and have moved on living life and smiling.

>8^)
ER

 

Rob,

Let me select it as wine and he'll never forget. Maybe the River Oaks location of Central Market has as good/or better wine selection as the one in Southlake.

Jeff

 

Monster leap of conjecture you are making. Read closer about what he says on the original telltale when provided with further photographic evidence.

At what point of fewest parts possible does this become "built from the number plate up", only there is no number plate either.

 

Yes it is all conjecture isn't it. I am simply spinning the results of what Mauro Foghieri said in one direction and I absolute respect your rights to spin it a different way.

Steve is clear on what he believes and to that end has found evidence to prove that Mauro agrees with him. To state that any such evidence automatically negates other evidence that disprove Steve's case would equally be a specious claim.

I believe that the only possible way to resolve the issue would be to host some sort of forum with all of the experts where they could lay out the various pieces of knowledge and evidence in a full and frank manner without any agenda's or perhaps with both agenda's present. Since that will never happen and certain of the main knowledge bases do not want to be open and frank with their knowledge, we will never resolve what actually happened in 1971 and it makes the discussion seem kinda pointless.

 

Is there any component at all that has an irrefutable link to being used on the original 0846? a screw, a bolt, a brake caliper, anything?

 

It's amusing to watch the two of you carry out your own brands of revenge against James Glickenhaus.

 

I find it more amusing that the peanut gallery remains so convinced in a story with so many holes in logic and contrary evidence remains willing to drink the kool aid.

You want some more insight, go up to the Owners section. You just might stumble open some eye opening information.