Why do you want to take that risk? Whenever you go for belt change change the variators even thay are green stamped. It does not worth to take that risk. These variators are not that much expensive (app 115 usd ea in UK) and many authorised and indy services advice belt+tensioner bearings+variator replacement every 3 year or 50 000 km whichever comes first. Similar variable valve timing system are used in Alfa Romeo 156s in europe and many Alfa owners upgraded to Ferrari 360 variators to avoid failure risk but Fcars don't have upgrade chance so the best solution is to replace them periodically.
is this really necessary ? Every belt change ? Doesn't changing them introduce additional risk with damaging the cams ? Although the part may not be expensive, isn't it a labour intensive task to do properly ?
Sure... I don't stop there. I replace the entire engine with a new one with every belt change. Why on earth would you replace the variators with every belt change? That's silly. They have a lifetime expectancy of 60,000 miles per Ferrari.
Why do you change new version kevlar belts every 3 years or 30000 miles? They are the same materials from dayco has a lifetime expectancy of 5 years or 60000 miles in most other European cars. Answer is overheated engine bay, very high rpms,etc. 360 engines are known as bullet proof machines unless you run it out of oil or water. But, yes there is a but as always, its weakest link is variators (so variotor-less same family 355 engine is more bulletproof!). For a long time (untill 2012) Ferrari adviced 360 owners to replace belts/pulleys and variators as a kit in Europe. Personally i am changing them regardless of the mileage every 3 years. It is just 230 USD 2 pieces of variators. IMO this is a cheap insurance against loosing engine.
You can do that, it's your car. I personally do my belts every 5 years. The Kevlar are very durable. But there is no indication that replacement of the variator every 3 yrs is a) necessary, b) has any indication that a new variatior will fail in 3 years c) given a failure rate for variators statistically there is no indication for change every 3 years unless you're racing. Maybe in europe its cheap. Here its not cheap at all. $362 per variation USD, $724 USD for both. Not including the cost for replacement. Statistically it's not indicated and in replacing them you have a risk for failure with problems with installation. As far as 355 engines.. ever heard of bronze valve guides? Variator failure rate isn't high enough to justify replacement every 3 years. I'd LOVE to hear the other reputable mechanics on here tell me that I should replace my variators with the belts...
The variator is extremely cheap when compared with the resulting engine rebuild after failure. I had a new type variator fail. Not a situation I would wish on anyone (unless they are a politician or in real estate)............. I agree every 3years is probably overkill. But personally I would do the belts complete with variators every 5 years. Go take a look at the thread on these things. Its a small diameter with oil lube holes both through the middle and at 90 degrees to the thread. These things are a definite weak point in the engine and I'm not bothered what anyone else says. This tread is screwed into the cam and the vernier pulley is bolted to the face of the variator. I kept the car for 4 years after rebuilding and it run faultless. However I couldn't get that worry out of my head. Eventually sold and replaced with an Aston DB9. I kept my F355 which as mentioned earlier in the post has a very similar Tipo motor without the worry of the variators. Of course this is personal for me as it was not a nice experience. But if one looks at the volume of these cars and the relatively small failure rates. I wouldn't be too concerned. However do not get fooled into thinking this isn't an issue or that the so called "new design" variator is essentially any better than the old one. Just budget to replace the variators and consider them a consumable item like a belt or tensioner bearing.
Again, I'd like to hear a mechanic tell the board that they recommend replacing the variators with every belt change. I asked my mechanic about replacing with every belt change and he thought it was absurd. Sold a 360 but kept a 355 because of worries about repair costs.. that's a funny! (hehehe) FYI the variators break by cracking at the neck where it attaches to the cam. Later designs beefed up the neck.
My 2000 car had a variator failure at 14~18k miles and the engine was replaced under warranty. She now sits on circa 68k, without ever having had the variators replaced and they will never be replaced until they stop working (operating that is). I loose no sleep over it. I would consider changing them preventively to be a waste of money and an unnecessary risk.
Thanks for sharing your experience dkilka. One thing I am curious about is the fact that even the new type variators are prone to failure, just as yours did. Im trying to get my head around what the benefit of changing them out is, when even the new ones can fail at any time. I don't believe there has ever been any correlation made between failures and high mileage, they can fail at anytime. It seems its a lottery either way.
No s%$t they fail at the neck! What are you a f&%king rocket scientist??? They "beefed up the neck" by changing the radius. Which is jack **** in the grand scheme of things. The main thread diameter remains unchanged as does the rest of the component. Same design made out of same material. They did however change the method and torque used at installation. Something you don't mention (but probably already know). I never said my F355 was cheaper to maintain than my 360. It certainly doesn't have any variators to worry about and that was my point. Please do NOT ever change your variators. Perhaps you'll never have an issue! Just don't force your opinions on other people. The only point I raised my experiences is to help educate people and let them make their own decisions. I certainly don't lambast them for having their own opinions! Ferrari list the variator as a service item and recommend replacement at 60k....... I have better things to do than waste my time trying to educate people who already know it all. PS are you a politician or in realestate? ;-)
Hi mate, I don't want to panic people. Based upon my experiences I'd change them out every 5 years at each belt change with the belts and tensioners. That's based upon how much I used my car and the fact I did my belt changes every 5 years not every 3. Also the fact I had a failure obviously influences this. So I'm probably on overkill! If I had my impartial hat on I'd say change them every 10 years or at the mileage specified by Ferrari (which I believe is 60k). The failure mode I encountered was fatigue. Fatigue happens to the old part just as it does to the new one. The new part is almost identical except for a slight change to the radius at the top of the mounting thread. Ferrari also changed the installation procedure and torque for the revised variators. I had my failed component dye pen and ultrasonically tested. The variator in the other bank which didn't fail was also removed and tested. This was in great shape and no issues were discovered. So even though the 2 variators were of same manufacture date, installed at same time by same workshop. One failed and other was perfect. Go figure! There is also some conjecture as to if the variators can be damaged at installation. Part of the old Ferrari work instruction used mole/vice grips to hold the verniers during belt changes. If this was done incorrectly we found there was potential to bend the variator and this could potentially weaken it. Overall just be aware that this is a consumable item and plan accordingly. Don't let it effect your use or enjoyment of what is a great car. (Kind of hypocritical of me to say but having had this experience I simply lost enjoyment and faith in the car). If you look at the global population of cars and amount of failures the risk really appears very small. Whatever you do enjoy the car. Life is too short!
First of all let me begin by saying.. I know. As a politician that does real estate.. who also sells used cars I might add.. I've also read interestingly that it could also be as the belt is tensioned if improperly tensioned it sets up a harmonic in the metal that leads to the repetitive stress on the neck that leads to cracking. It would be interesting to look back and see any differences on the job or what was done prior to your owning it regarding belt jobs. I know. (hehhe) Poor car and wallet.. all those bent valves.
I got all the parts myself from Europe. Cost about A$7k from memory. Had the head repaired by a mob that do engine work for the v8 supercar series cars. Fully rebuilt with all new valves, guides and seals. Had my local Ferrari dealer do the rest of the work. Total for labour was approx A$7k. A$14k total. Got away light as we crack detected pistons and all were ok. No cracks. Also once engine was rebuilt compression was same across both banks. Sometimes if you have issues and rebuild one side you have to do the other if the other is worn at all as if one sides worn the complete engine won't run right. I was lucky mine was in new spec. Very lucky none of valves snapped and dropped into cylinders too! Could have been much worse! So I count myself lucky in being unlucky (if that makes any sense).
Good point, well made. I definitely buy that idea. I can see how poor installation could effect the variator. They are not designed to be excessively loaded like that. I still believe these need to be replaced and are a consumable part as Ferrari themselves state. But no doubt incorrect installation could be a cause of future failure. Does this mean you should never change them? I don't believe so. But others might do. Who's correct? I honestly don't know. Pay your money and take your chance. I know a guy who run his F355 for almost 10yrs and 80k miles on the original belts with no issues! Does that mean I'd do that? No.... Everybody can judge for themselves and act accordingly. Main thing is to enjoy the car!
Any update on this? I'm looking at a euro car and there is no sign the variators have been changed at 19.5k miles. I checked with a dealer as well and they had no record of it, so I'm planning to have it done, along with the belt service, right away if I do buy the car. Right now it's between this lower mileage euro and a higher mileage (35k) US spec with all campaigns done.
Where is the engine number located? I will self-deprecate by inviting sarcastic humor ... it’s engraved somewhere on the engine. Right, but where?
Save your sanity, go buy a borescope inspection camera. It's about $150.00 and is a necessary piece of equipment for ALL F-car owners. Especially if you have fat fingers and drops a fasterner down a crack somewhere. Add a flexible magnetic rod to the shopping list while you're at it.
