Ferrari F355 Cam Lock Tool

Mitch, please clarify: when you start, are you talking about a motor YOU timed prior or one someone else did?

 

No take camshafts out

 

Ok. I submit this might be a PITA to do with the cam seal housings on the head. Do you know for a fact they can be removed, slid forward off their studs with the pulleys on the camshafts?

Seems like a lot more work to me....

 

Yes the rings come off the shaft. Amount of work depends on goals and what is in your personal undefined major service. For example there is a professional turd polisher who deals in cheap ferraris. To him a belt change is a major. He buys beat down ferraris with no service history does a belt swap and advertises major service done.

Two things I personally include in my major is fuel injector service by 3rd party and intake side decarbonization. There is always a little cr@p in there even if mixtures are perfect and oil levels are kept to a minimum. What is less work imo is to remove cam shafts to inspect them 360 degrees, have all valves closed so intake side is easily walnut shelled out, and cam shaft bolt is easily removed on the bench, and on soild tappet cars (348) fast and easy shim swap. So it is more work if you leave the shafts in.

 

So, you are telling me the cam seal housings can be slid forward off their mounting studs (without removing the pulleys) so the cam shaft can then be lifted straight up out of the head?

Edit: here is a photo showing the amount of room. I'm not seeing this as a possibility
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By way of explanation of the pics I sent to Dave and he posted, the top left pic shows the tool in position to torque the bolts on the end of the cam. The cams are effectively locked in place. I've found that some other methods don't lock the motor effectively and there's a risk the cam turning, sometimes slipping a notch, or the crank turning under pressure of the torque if I'm using the belt as a stop. This tool provides a positive stop.
The top right photo shows the tool in position for assembly, holding the gears in place well enough, yet allowing them to be turned as needed by varying the tightness of the locking bolts of the tool.
IMO the tool is effective for the job. It's a time and hassle-saver. Other tools can do the job too. There are other methods to the same end. I chose this one, and I'm quite happy with that choice. The only criticism I have is that the bolts on the tool are SAE as opposed to metric.
I'm quite proud of my tools. I'm not capable of making nice ones like this one, or Ferraridriver's (nice!), nor do I have the time to make it. Dave's is a cool tool, and a fast solution.

 

When I was an 18 year old punk 1977, I flew to California to get a special grind roller cam for a bored stroked big block. Ed Iskendarion sat me down and MADE me lean all about cam timing importance / procedure before he would let me leave the shop with my roller cam. took a good 6 hours before he was satisfied I was capable. Even had lunch.

Everything needs to be dead on symmetrical to whatever spec your running that tune up.

 

Very cool!

 

Dave,

I have worked on many motors other people have timed. I have worked on my own motors where I have timed it too, and it always needs 1 or 2 cams retimed.

And yes the cam shafts can be removed off the car with those seal housings pushed forward.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I don't understand how a previously timed motor would vary at the next timing. The only logical reason would be wear of components and I don't see that adding up to much. I suspect (and in no way is this a criticism), the method used over both instances had variations in the measurements. Or, you are dealing with belt tolerances.

 

For informational purposes: I stopped at my shop where my heads are. I no longer have cam seals as they were taken out and discarded when I pulled them out of the housings. It's not possible to slide the housings forward to get them off their mounting studs (not enough room) See picture.

I suppose the camshaft could be lifted out at an angle and it might be possible but I for one have no intention to ever do that as it's a risk to the bearing surfaces. IMO, replacing cam seals should be done by removing the housings from the head while the camshafts are in place.
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I have done it many times with the seals on the cam shafts. It works, or remove the pulley, that also works.

 

As I said, doable sure but I have what I believe are proper methods and I don't like the idea of angle loading the seal. Plus IMHO, it's far more work to remove the cams and not necessary.

 

You just need to do the job and you will understand it. You are not angle loading anything. This is the only picture I got handy. See camshaft out cam seal ring slides right down the lobes. There are many very good reason to take the shafts out. I major is claimed to be 40hrs. Why not spend a couple more to ensure you have done your best? It is the gold connector kit guy you don't like who said "quality is not an accident"

You I assume are trying to justify the use of your cam lock tool for sale? You say lock and swap is perfect timing if you know past timing. You can't have it both ways. You negate the use for your tool because then you won't be taking torquing cam bolt if you assume timing is retained and perfect. You use your tool's primary purpose to lock the cogs if torquing the bolts which means you cam timed the motor.
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Carl, if you think it makes sense to remove the cams, I'm very happy for you. I don't - makes no sense to me. As for trying to justify my tool - nope. I'm not going to get rich selling cam locks. Your own "stooge" brother is all the testimonial I need.

PS, your photo does not look like a 355 camshaft. And, after designing and building machines for 25 years I know a few things about proper assembly techniques

Working for GM Powertrain did not hurt either

 

The reason is because the Ferrari method is very precise. We know even in the chevy motor world that you gain more precision using a giant degree wheel over a small degree wheel. We know that Ferrari at the factory timed motors and scribed the back of the heads as shown here. With parallax error on the 3 ft camshaft looking in a mirror in the dark, without a clear line of sight, you tell me how you can be remotely accurate? Bottom line is you can't. Use those perfect marks a few times then cam time the motor and your results will vary each time. Just try it and you will learn. Don't get me wrong. Assembly marks are close and hand scribed marks are closer and "consumer acceptable." I'm spending days doing my major and I'm going for perfect not close enough. That's how you get a 550 to drive cross country to Canada in the snow.
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And Carl, for the records, I have totaly respect for Dave Helms. Just because I don't subcribe to his GCK does not mean I don't respect him so please stop saying I don't because you are very wrong.

 

Heck I'm trying to sell your tool by telling people to cam time! I do a lot of Ferrari motors and they are all about the same. With all the things you have done to your 355 motors you look at a 308 or 488 motor and there will not be much head scratching. They are all just otto cycle engines of very similar design.

 

My apologies. Your past posts and our discussion on the subject and the creator did not give "me" an impression of respect. But lets keep on the 355 cam lock topic.

 

Carl, I'm not suggesting to use factory timing marks per your post 91. What I've said is a timed motor with a mere belt swap will result in the same timed motor less cam lobe wear and belt tolerances, all minor at best and given the 355's limitation of 1.5 degrees, it's not going to matter. Regarding my respect for Dave Helms you are completely wrong. Just because I don't support his product does not mean I dislike or don't respect the man.

 

The tool has serveral uses as already pointed out and demonstrated. If I replace cam seals, the pulleys are coming off as I believe that is the proper way to do it. I guarantee the cams where installed in the factory first, then the seals / housings followed by the pulleys last. If you wish to angle your cams, good for you. I will remove and install them perpendicular to their axis and no other way. The pulleys can also be marked, removed and reinstalled as they came off. Pretty simple concept.

Some use screw drivers for chisels, I don't.

 

It is pretty clear by your post you have no understanding about what I am talking about. That's OK you and I never communicate very well. All I can say is do it a bunch more times and things will get clearer. There is even a place for a hammer in cam timing to go with the screw drivers and chisels.

 

The discussion of cam timing always gets to me so I thought I would post something definitive. If you disagree with that I say you don't understand math and mechanics. It simply can not be any other way. PERIOD.

The attached picture shows the timing belt of a 355. If you do a lock and swap belt change, assuming you don't skip a tooth some how, the only thing that can alter the timing of the intake cam is the length of the belt "A" between the indicated teeth on the crank and cam sprockets. That distance represents roughly 40% of the belt over all length. The belt manufacture, ISORAN, states that the tolerance on belt length is +/- 0.75 mm or 0.03". Thus the absolute maximum difference between two new belts would be 0.06" assuming one belt was of minimum length and the other of maximum length. Since the difference is distributed around the entire belt length, the change in the length of the belt "A" would be 40% of that or 0.024". Now, to have the teeth on the sprockets properly mesh with the belt the intake cam would have to be rotated by some angle to account for the change in belt length. The cam sprockets have a pitch diameter of approximately 3", thus the circumference is 9.425". The angle of rotation of the sprocket required to accommodate the change in belt length would be 0.024 / 9.425 x 360 = 0.917 degrees. Thus the absolute maximum change in cam timing that can occur from a belt swap, from when the older belt was new, is less than one degree. Additionally, the relative change in timing between intake and exhaust would be relative the distance "B". Being generous, the distance "B" is maybe 10% of the belt total length. Thus the maximum difference in belt length and relative timing between intake and exhaust due to belt tolerances would 1/4 that of the intake error or 0.23 degrees.

Now, the odds of swapping belts that are at opposite side of the extremes of belt tolerances are extremely low. More than likely any two belts, when new, would be statistically much closer to each other. To know a more reasonable expectation of length differences it would be necessary to know the probably distribution of the belt length and it's standard deviation. It would not be unreasonable to expect the standard deviation to be 1/3 of the max tolerance. Thus, it would be more likely than not that the actually change in timing when belts are swapped would be on the order of 0.3 degrees.

So, in summary, when a lock and swap belt change is performed the worse case scenario would be a change in timing of 0.9 degrees with a reasonable expectation that it would be closer to 0.3 degrees. Realize this would be the change in timing from when the old belts were initially installed, not when they were removed. There is simply no possibly way the timing could change more unless something changed mechanically or one or both belts were out of spec.
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As usually John, you make sense out of these situations and you post facts. Thank you for doing the math, this is all my thoughts exactly!!

 

And the effects of belt tension?
Or cam lobe wear?
Or lower timing gear teeth wear?

The spec is +/- 1.0 degrees. Please note that the degree reading that Ferrari specifies is based on a particular lift figure at "TDC." So, any wear in the valve train will have an effect. I see nothing in your calculations that addresses that. I try extremely hard to get the bank to bank timing as close as possible. Many cat issues, high emissions and sub-optimal driveability can be linked back to the cam timing being incorrect.

Full disclosure: I have no tools to sell. I do this professionally and have personally timed at least 400-500 Ferrari engines. Oh and I too am a formally trained engineer...