360 Engine Out - so it begins. | Page 8 | FerrariChat

360 Engine Out - so it begins.

Discussion in '360/430' started by FlyingHaggisRacing, Feb 11, 2016.

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  1. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
    BANNED Professional Ferrari Technician

    Apr 26, 2006
    3,664
    New England
    Full Name:
    David Feinberg
    It should be a split (lock-type) washer.

    The "center" hole that you'll lock in place is not concentric with the outer race. The additional two holes (for the tool) enable you set set the belt tension/tensioner flange to housing clearance. There is addition information in the WSM. In short, the clearance will be set at approx. 2.2-2.7mm which should give you the desired belt tension. Again, details are spelled out in the WSM.
     
  2. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    #177 FlyingHaggisRacing, May 23, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  3. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    #178 FlyingHaggisRacing, May 23, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  4. Keith360

    Keith360 Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2015
    570
    Santa Barbara County
    Full Name:
    Keith Williams
    Looking great!

    Question on steam cleaner, is the steam cleaner you are using have a primary purpose to clean household floors and furniture?
     
  5. RedTaxi

    RedTaxi F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 1, 2012
    3,253
    New Zealand
    Full Name:
    Glen
    Did you end up pulling the timing gear cover to do the bearings?
    Looking good.
     
  6. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    #181 FlyingHaggisRacing, May 24, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  7. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    Front belt pulley bearings.

    Yes, done - but I cheated....
    Ken (runs the garage in the other street) came over and did it, i finished off the hydraulic tappets.

    I think he came over to see if i was ever going to give his loaner car back that I've been using for months.

    Sorry Ken - i will make it up to you - promise. :)
     
  8. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    Found some good shops near Soy street - Mong Kok

    A plastic materials shop that can machine things as you wait.
    they made me a perfect tool for fitting the front crank seal. (a tube but to the perfect ID and OD)

    Next door was a shop with every imaginable O ring you could think of + seals.
    Some of the seals in the window looked just like what I've fitted either end of the crank.

    And on the other side 1 block down was a SKF bearing shop and a hydraulic hose shop.

    So bit by bit - building a a supply base.


    Now just need to figure out where to get some gas for a welder.
     
  9. efg2014

    efg2014 Formula Junior

    Sep 14, 2014
    613
    Northern California
    So when will you be done and when can we see some more photos? I think you are crazy but in a good way :)
     
  10. Keith360

    Keith360 Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2015
    570
    Santa Barbara County
    Full Name:
    Keith Williams
    That's great that you're finding places locally that stock items.
     
  11. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    Here's a big couple of questions.....

    1. Variator Solenoid.
    Testing, It's an on/off type, so is it..

    i) ok to test like this ?
    ii) does it need 5v or 12v, any current limit needed ?
    iii) does it open or close some oil pathway, if yes then which ?


    2. Variator

    i) how does it work ? (oil under pressure changes the angular relationship of the outer to the inner section)
    ii) what's inside, any rubber seals or stuff like that ?
    iii) if it's 'powered' by oil pressure - surely it needs some internal flush to get the crap out ?


    Looking forward to some good techie answers on this one.
     
  12. rmarchjr

    rmarchjr Formula Junior

    May 21, 2012
    576
    North east, USA
    Replace both, had one fail on an engine, WSM gives a mileage for replacement. Valves met pistons, not good. When it failed the cam stopped moving but the pistons did not.
     
  13. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    What was the failure....
    there was a break between the Variator and the cam ( a-la the 2004 campaign) ?
    OR
    internally what controls the 10deg change and drives the cam failed ?
     
  14. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    What was the updated torque for the variator ?
     
  15. rob73

    rob73 Rookie

    Apr 29, 2015
    18
    Athens, Greece
    Full Name:
    Bert
    160 Nm dry (without any lubricant or Loctite) left hand thread.

    I hope you have access to a torque wrench with L/H tightening function. Hazet from Germany used to offer one with reversible coupling.

    FYI: WSM says they should be replaced every 50000 km.
     
  16. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    #191 FlyingHaggisRacing, May 30, 2016
    Last edited: May 30, 2016
    My PDF's of the WSM say 175Nm and threadlock.


    My thoughts given ...
    a) both old and new designs have all reported failures.
    b) the number of failures given the large number of 360's seems small as a %.
    So yes the stub nose that joins the variator to cam is a bit twee, but tend towards the idea that the incorrect (over torque) fitting was probably the causation of what may have been a marginal solution.


    Mine have the green spot - so they were updated at some point.
    I am asking AItalia when they were done, and if they can fit new ones
    ....but that equally doesn't fill me with confidence given the whole put it in a bench vice and twist the fxxx out of it, a-la WSM.

    The other school of thought is to leave them alone.... they survived the lack of care the car has endured so far.
     
  17. rob73

    rob73 Rookie

    Apr 29, 2015
    18
    Athens, Greece
    Full Name:
    Bert
    #192 rob73, May 31, 2016
    Last edited: May 31, 2016
    Just checked it and the my copy of factory WSM says 200Nm with hi strength threadlocker applied.
    BUT: Ferrari Bulletin campaign No 1232 from June 2004 for engine numbers below 60796 has revised this to:
    Non lubricated threads and tightening torque 160Nm .
    When you think about it. Why would it need a thread locker? the variators are tightened by the motion of timing system.
    It also mentions that when workshop did the update with the new revised parts, a "VD" mark should be punched on to the cylinder head. It should be on the upper surface, the area that is not covered by the cam covers.

    Ferrari has a lengthy procedure for this job with cam shafts in situ that requires additional special tools.
    Probably easier and less chance to twist the cams if you take them out and use a bench vise.

    Ferrari prescribes the special socket tool AV3131 that hooks into 2 machined bores in the component.
    I'll give you a tip: use the Alfa Romeo variator socket tool. It's exactly the same but has 3 pegs instead of the 2 required for the Ferrari. For example: Laser 3951. You just hacksaw/file off 1 peg and presto... you have the perfect tool for this job . (Alfa twin spark variators are externally almost identical to the Ferrari's)

    Clamp the camshaft in a vise between 2 soft pieces of wood as close as possible to the variator end. Also remember that removal is clockwise direction.
    Edit: sorry my mistake: scheduled variator life is approx. 100000km according WSM instead of 50000.
     
  18. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 29, 2009
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    #193 Kevin Rev'n, May 31, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  19. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    Thanks for the 'tool' tip , GBP22 seems fair.

    If the 100,000km is real then I still have at least 75,000km to go.
     
  20. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    #195 FlyingHaggisRacing, Jun 1, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  21. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 29, 2009
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    Kevin
    He's got Molykote! (Lower left corner) Yay! I just went through an exercise to find some to lubricate the O-Rings on my oil system mesh filter. It's called out in the WSM so I wanted to use it. It was never really clear which of the 47 varieties was the one that they intended. :-(
     
  22. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    same - i just want "my nuts to stay in place" ;)
    - not a mini project in studying 47 types of thread-lock.
     
  23. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    #198 FlyingHaggisRacing, Jun 8, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Finally the valves are all 'lapped'.
    They just needed the smallest amount with the smooth paste, except for 3 of the exhaust valves that needed a bit more to get the grey surface all the way round.

    So they are all now back in the heads and looking good.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  24. stevecomp

    stevecomp Formula Junior

    Mar 1, 2013
    743
    South Australia
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Looking good mate, don't forget to fill the port with fuel to test the seal of the seat once assembled. 👍
     
  25. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2013
    1,368
    I did indeed.
    Rather pleased with myself that they show no sign of leaking.
     

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