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Fast downshifting 430

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by speef, Jun 6, 2016.

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  1. speef

    speef Karting

    Oct 28, 2011
    111
    #1 speef, Jun 6, 2016
    Hi gang, I have a first year F430... it's a two pedal car, it auto blips for downshifts, but it's slow... I find that downshifting it like a bike, with blipping the throttle myself works best for aggressive breaking... either through heel and toeing it or left foot breaking and blipping with the right foot... wondering if others have found the same technique to work well and also if there's s/w to speed it up or is it a purely mechanical system... I'm not familiar with how the actuators work in detail ... just wondering ... thank you - Speef
     
  2. John_K_348

    John_K_348 F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2013
    2,757
    Boston, MA
    Full Name:
    John E. Kenney
    #2 John_K_348, Jun 6, 2016
    I'm about to be a 360 newbie. Done a lot of research and took a test drive. Just hammering out the paperwork and getting the balance from the other driver's insurance company that hit me in my 348 Spider... :(

    The Transmission control unit uses throttle position and rpm to shift. On the 360 Spider I am buying, downshifts were better than upshifts. I had a tendency to lift on upshifts out of old manual habit. But I have learned that the clutch wear amount and friction point must be dialed in to the TCU to optimize shifts. Also, the firmware effects how the robotic system makes all of this happen. I am also about to buy a Challenge Stradale TCU for precisely this reason. FoLI indicated they can't reflash the stock Spider TCU. I don't think FoNE can either because of factory build rules. That's fine. When I show up with a CS TCU we should be ok since it is bought and paid for. If it doesn't work, I can swap it back. But it is proven to work on later model 360s. My Spider is a 2004.
     
  3. speef

    speef Karting

    Oct 28, 2011
    111
    #3 speef, Jun 6, 2016
    Hi John, very helpful thanks... good luck with the purchase and have fun @
     
  4. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,316
    Clarksville, Tennessee
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    Terry H Phillips
    #4 tazandjan, Jun 6, 2016
    Eric355 can reflash late 360 TCUs to CS specs.
     
  5. JWeiss

    JWeiss F1 World Champ
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    Nov 18, 2010
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    JWeiss
    #5 JWeiss, Jun 7, 2016
    There's a ton of software in the ECU that controls the clutch and shift actuators. I'm not sure what you mean when you talk about manually blipping. Once you hit the paddle, the ECU takes over the throttle until the shift is complete - your blips should not have an effect.
     
  6. speef

    speef Karting

    Oct 28, 2011
    111
    #6 speef, Jun 7, 2016
    that's very interesting because they seem to... it downshifts a lot faster when it senses throttle vs just brake ... hm... you got me wondering now...
     
  7. JWeiss

    JWeiss F1 World Champ
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    Nov 18, 2010
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    JWeiss
    #7 JWeiss, Jun 9, 2016
    Well, when I hear "blips", I think about shifting under braking or with minimal steady-state throttle. And the blip occurs during the course of the shift.

    Now, if you're increasing throttle during the shift (rather than maintaining), the shift will be somewhat different because the ECU will seek to match RPM coming out of the shift to your throttle input. So, the experience will be different, but I wouldn't expect the shift should be faster.

    It's certainly possible that shifting when off throttle (with or without braking) will be slower since the ECU detects that you're coasting down in speed, and may look for a smoother engagement. When you're on throttle, the ECU really should seek to get the shift done as quickly as possible.
     
  8. speef

    speef Karting

    Oct 28, 2011
    111
    #8 speef, Jun 9, 2016
    I think you nailed it, and clarified it for me... namely, when 1) shifting off throttle (with or without braking) the shifting is slower since it detects coasting, when 2) I maintain throttle during downshifting it'll speed up vs 1) when 3) I downshift and increase throttle (with our without breaking) - what I term blipping - it shifts a lot more aggressively, but it maybe as fast as 2) it just feels faster because it tries to match higher input throttle revs and therefore it's louder ... so I think you are correct, 2 and 3 may shift faster than 1 but 2, 3 may have equivalent shift times they only sound and feel different... I have no way of measuring it I guess... the only question is how quickly can the actuators physically shift, and when are they programmed to go to max vs "coast" ...
     

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