Is it just me of is F1 less enjoyable than it is in the late 90s to 2001?

+1

I'm sure you remember the legendary Merzario too!?

TBH, the name was eluding me, but a quick Google & Wiki solved it..... Oh dear, the list of F1 teams long gone is long!..... You scroll thru it and say 'oh yeah, I remember them'.....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_constructors



Cheers,
Ian

 

The thing is - most people are complaining of the lack of show, as F1 reads feedback from "ack of show" - they then start getting gimmicky, reverse qualifying, etc. Its a dangerous slope to call it boring.

 

When Schumi dominated, it did get boring. But when he was climbing back up and fighting Hakkinen and Coulthard, the races were pretty amazing.

 

This is where we beg to differ. Which is fine of course.

F1 has often been 'dominated' by a single driver and/or a single team.

I doff my cap to them and hope the others will catch up. And they always do, sooner or later.

But boring? Nah, I find it fascinating.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Technology in f1 is all very well, but when it's mixed with tyres that have to last too long, and fuel limits, and artificial overtaking through one use per lap DRS etc, it becomes a gimmick. The F1 we are all missing is the pure out and out racing as fast as you can go, if you ain't fast enough, develop, style that f1 was all about. Managing a car to the end of the race to make fuel last and development legislated against to the point where the fastest cars in race one will remain that throughout an entire season (or three) is not interesting in itself.

Yeah yeah, sometimes merc ****s up, and someone else lucks into a win, or you can pretend the mercs don't exist and we see the odd set of tyres go off and a few teams fight over 3rd to 10th - so what? Is that really anywhere near as good as watching schumi and the rest recalculate pit strategy during the race to win, race as fast as possible until the final lap to beat each other, one team dominate the first few races, only to be hauled back in and end up third or fourth best by mid-season, to then find a few tenths for the last few races and win the championship by a single point ? Nope, it isn't, and fast Ian knows this too

We are not complaining because f1 is too fast, or too technical, but we are complaining because the artificial bull**** they've introduced has reduced the show to a predictable snore fest, and the premise of the racing is artificial and stilted. We don't need any fancy gimmicks to improve the racing, we need TESTING AND DEVELOPMENT DURING THE SEASON.

Screw the teams that can't keep up in development terms, financially or otherwise, they will get the developments in the long term through their technical partnerships anyway. They don't win with no development, and they won't win with it, so who cares. They will still go racing, and they will still come sixteenth or whatever. Development at the front, however, might just see an actual RACE for first and second, rather than a 'genetlemans agreement' between pit crews as to who is in front at the point they've placed the team hat on the apex of the eighth corner of lap one

 

^^ I hear you man, I really do.

I've been saying forever they should have 2-3 days of testing following 'most' races.

I understand they don't want to return to the multiple dedicated test teams of yore, fine. But let 'em stay over for a few days to develop ****.

Minimal added cost in the scheme of things & they wouldn't be stuck in the 'stalemate' we have now.

Cheers,
Ian

 

I think the in-season tests use the race engines, do they not? Pretty counter-productive IMO. Also one of the reasons why Friday running is fairly limited. Teams are complaining of lack of testing, but don't drive as many laps as possible on Fridays...but they can't because they have to save the engine!

That's why new engines (or upgrades thereof) are run on a dyno for hundreds of hours, it all seems well and good...then they stick it in a car and it lasts not even half, or turbo's eating themselves. Recreating it can only go so far on a dyno.

Which is why the token system only works partly. Cue massive engine upgrade, spend very valuable tokens...turns out it doesn't work as it did on the dyno > season ****ed (perhaps even more, the coming season too as you now have to look for a solution in the off season and it's limited testing!), so you go back to your old engine, having spend tokens!

F1 is bizarre.

 

I believe so. Another thing I'd change when I get Jeans gig! Its BS!.... Test engines are outside of your season allocation. Do what you want for those few days following most races. Still have scrutineering (or they'll cheat) but you're free to use whatever components you want without counting against any allocations.

Indeed!

Cheers,
Ian

 

F1 has surely changed since I started following it (1961).
It has become very professional, predictable and has slowly pushed the public back.
At Spa, or a Rheims, I remember strolling in the paddock, taking photos, exchanging with the mechanics, etc... You can hardly do that now. All the celebrities are in the paddock now!!

I used to attend some GPs in Europe before (Belgian, French, British, German and Italian), but I wouldn't attend one now. First, there is the cost of travelling, plus all the aggros of buying tickets, booking flights, hotels, etc... At the track, you are now far from the action, and you have to pay extra to visit the paddock, etc... If it rains, it's a disaster.

With the improving TV coverage, on-board cameras, radio communications and the learned commentary, I find that I don't need to go to see a GP; I see more on my TV screen at home, and it's easier to follow too. It's one of the reasons I think Ecclestone is right to push for "pay-as-you-watch", because this is where the majority of the F1 audience is: sitting at home in front of the TV, not around the tracks!

 

Regarding pay as you watch: The commentary from Sky is so excellent (slightly biased though), it's worth the price IMO. I do wish that F1 would pull their head from their ass and start offering it on their site, pay your premium (say €10 per race), and select any commentary you want, and watch where you want.

Have an app for smart TV's, phones, their website, whatever...watch it anywhere you want. I'm sure they can make tons more money from this.

 

Νο, it is not you. I've lost interesting for F1 in the end of 2012. There are many reasons, like the engines (i'm a big fan of V10s), the pit stops, the design (i didn't like 2012 too), team orders etc. On the other hand, they've changed some great tracks, they've abandoned others.....there are a lot of reasons...

 

People often complain about the cars these days, but since you mention tracks, that's one of the reasons why I am lukewarm about F1 now.

The championship has abandonned some beautiful tracks (to me), and emasculated others.
But mostly what I deplore is the proliferation of chicanes, and the fact that the straights aren't not long enough in view of the speed of the cars.

I remember Monza without any chicane, that what really something. Just like Hockenheim. Rheims used to be just a triangle with 3 straights of several kms, and you could hear the engines howling for miles away.
Now, there is too much of twisty bits and not enough of high speed curves like there was on the old Spa circuit. I like to see cars at high speed - hence why I love Le Mans!!

 

All true. Today's tracks are a bit too 'playstation' point and squirt. The true test of man and machine has been gradually removed with the exception of Spa which is still epic. Shame really, but that is, apparently, progress...

 

I'd much rather see Ferrari being dominant than Mercedes. And Schumi vs. Hamilton isn't even a comparison.

But overtaking in those days, between two somewhat equal cars, became a rarity. I remember full race lenght parades and teams just battling it out on pit stop strategy's. In my mind in race overtaking then could be seen far less than today, other than in wet conditions or when one of the front runners had to start at the back of the grid.

I'm not quite sure if my impression of those days is fully justified. But theirs a reason why we're watching ugly cars with DRS.

On the other hand, I'd welcome less complex wings but with normal/old school dimensions. And ofcourse fuel saving shouldn't be part of the highest form of motorsport.

 

I think I may just be done with it once they bolt on Oprah's g string to the cars.

Given what they all spend to be there, collectively they seem to go out of their way to make the sport unwatchable and the drivers are boring wimps compared to those that have gone before.

TBH I enjoy MotoGP far more these days.

 

I always thought this car looked great.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

It's undeniable that MotoGP is far more thrilling than F1.

The bikes have still some relevance to what's on offer in the showrooms, even if it's only visual. No need for wings, ERS, DRS and other gummicks in Moto GP.

The different makes are evenly matched, with Honda, Yamaha, Ducati and Suzuki works bikes very close in performance.

There is not a domination from one make or one rider, and it's often difficult to forecast who will win.

There is close racing because of this, and the tracks can accommodate the bikes which haven't outgrown them like F1.

Finally, rules and regulations are kept to a minimum in MotoGP and easy to understand.

 

Epic.



Mark

 

Comparison of bikes and cars isn't really fair.

Bikes obviously have no wings, no or hardly any downforce to speak of, obviously bikes are narrow, just 2 wheels thus far less grip. A limited amount of cc's of "old school" engine tech were development is probably a small percentage game.

Bike chassis and suspension carries just 2 wheels, drive just 1, therefor simplified oposed to having 4 wheels. Less dimensions to think of, less room and posabilities for varying setups. Plus far less development costs means more teams can be competitive.

It all amounts into smaller differences between manufacturers and closer racing.

 

As much as i miss the glory days, the sounds, the rawness, it wasn't much different in terms of races.

Same 2-4 people finishing in the same order, some midpack people podium once in a while, the leader is ahead by 25-30 seconds. Just back then people DROVE the cars, danced them into and out of corners, knew the limits and went just over it. Today its a computer with wheels. Yeah they're faster and the G forces are there, but they're nowhere near as hard to drive. Plus they were less reliable so that helped mix things up a bit.

Comparison-Drive a 458 Italia around a race track as fast as you can. It'll be spectacular, it'll be fast, it'll be fun.
Drive a 328 around the same race track. It'll be scary, it'll be nerve wrecking, it'll be loose, it'll be adrenaline, it'll be slow but it will be more fun.

 

Have you ever seen a Zakspeed explode right in front of you at 12K RPM... the combination of water and oil mist is amazing... and it gets all over you! The smell is awesome... that is if you like the smell of gas & oil like I do!

 

I agree with everything except the pay per view. Being back in F-1 in the 70's and 80's you could get down in the pits and you could see the drivers and get up close to the cars as they were being prepared - and usually you did not need a special pass. about 85 is when FOCA started to limit Pits and Garage access... once the pit lane garage became THE garage for prepping the cars.... it just started to spiral out of control. today - its $5K for 2 days... Monaco $5K per day paddock access... and then you only get 45Min the whole weekend. if you are there with a sponsor - you can get into the team hospitality... this is like being behind the velvet rope in a club... I get that it makes it exclusive, but frankly the people who are there are not there at all for the racing but for the networking... when you are in the Paddock club - I would venture that 80% of the people there don't know who is racing.... the other 20% are regulars and fans or members of the F-1 community.

the average fan sees almost nothing of the cars and drivers... and if the drivers do an autograph session - there are thousands there so you don't get a chance to get an autograph unless you miss all the other stuff.. while you wait in line... I watched in Canada the same guy at 8 AM waiting by the Ferrari store for the 11AM Kimi autograph session ... so he paid the ticket, missed 2 hours of practice so he can get a poster signed by Kimi... what value.

 

It is a shame that F-1 does not go to great track anymore. SPA and Monza are on the ropes... Hockenheim has been totally emasculated, Spain is blah... Silverstone totally ruined... and now we have tracks like china and Bahrain.... at least Japan is still a traditional track... and COTA is not too bad, Montreal is about what is left of "traditional tracks" ... I remember when it was brand new!

The thing - to me - that made F1 so popular was the direct connection to history... all the greats drove the same track. ... now we go to Baku.. and Sochi.. both have such deep racing history!!!!

If we cant have the historic tracks of F-1 and we cant have huge grids like in the past ... at least let the technology be free... and have THE ultimate cars... right now LMS and IMSA are the technology leaders... the Porsche 919... is way more tech advanced than an F1 car....

the rules should look to protect the driver and keep them safe, and mandate that the driver control all systems in the car... he has to drive the car... but give him all the tech aids you can think of, and let them battle it out.

 

The original question was "Is it just me of is F1 less enjoyable than it is in the late 90s to 2001".

The late 1990s was dominated by McLaren
The early 2000s were dominated by Ferrari
The late 2000s were dominated by Red Bull
The mid 210s are being dominated by Mercedes

I had little interest in F1 during the McLaren domination, lots of interest in the Ferrari domination, lots of angst in the RedBull domination, and middling interest in the Mercedes domination.

In general, I would like to see all of the top 4-5 teams win in a single year and podium often, and the final race of the year determine the championship from between at least 3 teams.

 

I found MSC's domination boring and he is my favorite driver of all time. Domination is not good for the sport.