Predicted FF bottom for early used ones?

You "lean on the side of guys like you" ... is this a frat house? Jesus.

I mean this with sincerity, and even respect ... are you mentally unwell? How do you have so much money and are so dense?

I'm saying in as clear a way as possible that the LEDs are not needed in EITHER case. You can drive to the red line or you can not. It just looks cool in either car. The carbon, the LEDs, it's sporty. As a track item? Not helpful unless you're deaf. My head is always looking to the next exit and beyond, not the 3-4-5 LED decision.

Once you learn the sound of the motor, you know where to shift, it's not really that hard. Driving fast and looking down to see 3 LEDs or 4 is not something that the people driving fast do. The flashes of light are less interesting and telling than the sound of the V8 or V12 just short of the limit.

Are we clear on the concept?

 

ugh.

First off, I consider myself one of "the people that drive fast". Happy to compare driving and racing credentials at your convenience, or track record in vehicle dynamics and motorsports-related technology.

The idea of shift lights is NOT to look at them, but for them to be in your peripheral vision. In fact, the current gen technology is to have the computer beep in your earplugs to signal shift points...in addition to the lights.

Are they essential? of course not. Do they make a material difference? absolutely. In fact, one of my teammates had his dash fail in his car (i.e no lights). We could see in the data when he was shifting early (i.e. lost time) and when he banged the limiter (i.e. lost time).

If anything, I'd argue that they are just gimmicks on street cars

Time to knock this thread off IMHO before this becomes a repeat of the "Let's put the car in neutral to avoid spinning" thread, or the "modulating engine braking to optimize cornering speed" threads.

 

I have progressive (white, yellow, red, flash!) shifting lights in my SLS and I find them very useful. You don't have to really even look - just use peripheral vision. Much easier than trying to pick out a needle darting about on the tachometer - which requires focus.

Sometimes in the heat of the moment, you lose track of engine revs and the glaring lights are a useful reminder "Oh yeah, shift!!". The revs build so fast in these modern marvels that it can get away from you in no time.

 

Entropy, it's odd how you need to try and bolster your argument with credentials. Anytime you want to race, I'm game, but who cares? What a load of insecurity.

Looks guys ... hearing the motor is plenty good for 99% of drivers seeking the red line in EVERY CAN EVER MADE. Do you have the arrogance to say that :

1. Everyone driving every other car with no lights is just going slower than they could, because
2. what matters in driving fast is a flash of lights on the wheel?

What about all the Ferrari before this wheel? Slower lap times for decades?

It's a cool nod to F1, and it's a gimmick for ALL FCARS. Wake up. If you need lights to hear the top end of the motor, you're not really a driver. They flash and it's cool. The end. It's a better look with the carbon. To what lengths will people go to prove wrong this easily understood logic next?

 

only one reason - some poor fool is going to agonize over a bunch of brain cell killing advice and then may write a check with it in mind. outside of that, I cld care less.

 

Write a letter to Ferrari tell them to take em of their wheel
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I have zero insecurity on this topic.

Merely trying to help. I've learned a lot over the last 20 years from experts, and merely trying to point out the racing application of visual (and aural) driver aids in modern cars, which have moved beyond just ears and tach needles.

 

+1

 

The shift lights are a cool gimmick. If you guys seem to need them to know when to shift on track, etc then you should spend some time with some professional instruction. On track I rarely look at shift lights etc. you should be feeling that with your palms and your rear end. Everyone has different driving styles... But it's likely very few pro drivers rely on shift lights to know when to shift.

Any shift lights in Porsches? New GT3RS which is a purpose built track car... Of course not. Cool gimmick.

 

Exactly.

How do you gauge speed through a long high G corner, with the spedometer or with your ass and your hands?

How do you decide when to shift on a straight? With your ears. Sometimes short of red, sometimes full out.

Come on.

 

They're useful for 10 laps. Once you learn the car, no.

So you think F1 drivers are reading lights? "Hmm, 8 LEDs for this corner, 10 for the next"


Clearly the LEDs make people FEEL LIKE they have the essentials of an F1 car, good marketing Ferrari !

 

Not a gimmick. Fast forward to 1m30s and observe the shift lights on Vettel's Ferrari this year in Monaco. Same on (probably) all F1 cars since about the days of Schumi or thereabouts (earlier?).

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yXv9SeahV8[/ame]

 

I'm with entropy, I'm out of this one.

 

Comparing a road going Ferrari driven by most guys in their 50"s-60's to an f1 car and vettel???

None of your beloved ferraris are race cars or real track cars except for the super cars or possibly cars like a scuderia or speciale etc. led shift lights in a 4,000lb FF or F12 is a complete gimmick and a joke. They are nothing more than cool and if that's what's helping you shift then throw on some hearing aids and get professional instruction.

I could care less to argue with people on this board. I have better things to do with my time than to get in a pissing contest online behind my keyboard.

Some seem to think shift lights are very important and a necessity to get that .2 second faster lap time in their 4,000lb Ferrari.

I think it's a complete joke and aside from being really cool are meaningless. Don't get me wrong, I paid the $8k entry fee for carbon and led steering wheel. But I did it for the cool factor not because they help me shift on track.

 

You're wrong

 

You're effing hilarious

 

Thank you for the well reasoned reply.

The marketing has clearly worked ... some of you think you're an F1 driver!

Look, even if you were to get Kimi to come on here and say that he relies on the leds in any real world way, which is maybe possible if it's super loud in the pack, with those engines, and with ear plugs and with people yelling over the coms ... WE WEEKEND TRACK DRIVERS DRIVERS DON'T HAVE THAT ISSUE. We are also not sitting 2 feet off the ground staring straight out over the wheel, so it's stupid to look down enough to notice 3 LED or 4. We look ahead, scanning and feeling the car to choose throttle and gearing. We learn the sound of the revs, and we go with the road feel to shift into higher or lower RPM per turn, etc.

This whole thing started because people, or a person, with a non LED cars was tying to say they are not valuable on resale, and clearly (if you do the work of charting prices) they are. You can nearly draw a line on the pricing of cars with and without, which of course also has to do with other options. So losing that argument on the facts, it became about the practicality and dare we say necessity of 5 LEDs on a weekend car?

Maybe there is a time to throw in the towel in trying to prove yourself the expert.

P.S. No one is racing their F12, 458 or certainly FF in a pack of cars with coms blaring and 3 wide in turn 4. These cars are for fun, or should be. There is always one ass at the track who cuts people off on the inside of a blind corner. And there is seemingly someone here with the same bad attitude about this fun hobby and joyful passion.

Re Lax.

 

I bought a used FF without the Led steering wheel but with the full carbon fibre interior. I can not figure out why anyone would have spec the car that way without going with the carbon fibre wheel. With some research I located a aftermarket carbon fibre supplier for 458's and the steering wheel is the same as the FF. I ordered and installed the carbon overlay and from a different supplier the extended carbon fibre paddles.
Makes a big visual difference and better matches the rest of the interior. Sure I could have had the full drivers zone installed by Ferrari but they quoted $21,000. I achieved the same look minus the LED's for $1300. The LED's would be nice but with only 1-2 track days a year and the fact I stepped from a manual F430, hearing the engine is all I need.
Keep in mind to properly do this installation the airbag and steering wheel needed to be removed which I found easy but I fall into the category "If they don't find you handsome they better find you handily".
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2253995&stc=1&d=1466159848https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2253996&stc=1&d=1466159848
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^ nice

 

One last attempt.

This conversation has 3 components 1) do the LED options bring resale value? 2) do LEDs matter in a street car and 3) do LEDs matter in a race car (and, are "ears" just as good)

You'll note in my most recent posts, I was referring to RACE applications and to the "ear" accuracy, as demonstrated empirically (i.e. with real data) by actual professional drivers and teams

F1 (and LMP1, LMP1, GTE, GTD, GT3....) drivers absolutely use the lights. They also use an aural tone that is piped into their earplugs. Among other reasons, they are not focused on the engine note (too much else going on), there is a lot of ambient noise, they can't gauge accurately the revs AND, when running different fuel maps, the target RPMs change

On the street car, as I said, they are a bit of a gimmick, like carbon fiber details, the F1-esque fog light, even carbon brakes. The "F1" gearbox at first was more about "using paddles" than it being "better" (though the DCT's today ARE that much better)

Completely agree. Have done the same on 4 new Ferraris (and, avoided it on 2...the FF's).

"This" started with a debate about the specific impacts of one option (LED wheel) on resale. The challenge was not the aggregate (which you track) on ask prices, but on the specific demand sensitivity on a specific model (the FF). We also challenged the correlation between ask price and actual sale price, and what some of the "vanity options" (eg. Carbon, Anilina leather, rear DVD's) actually recover on re-sale. I think we all agree, the higher the MSRP, the higher the resale. And, I think we all agree, that "heavy optioned cars" tend to have most of the boxes checked, inclusive of CF/LED's. Where we diverge is the conclusions drawn around a specific piece. No big deal.

My comments shifted over to the LED usage and racing comments and the accuracy of using one's ears to shift in a TRACK setting. You'll also note that I said you don't NEED lights, or a Tach, but the accuracy (and time/speed, if that's relevant) will not be there. I drive my Fiat Abarth around, I can't even see the damn tach, but it's fine. If I was going for speed and time, I'd have to.

+1. Our personal view is if you have a little CF, you need all of it. OTOH, in our FF's we did zero carbon (whereas on our other cars, we got it all). The lights are cool for sure, but not required on a street car...whether on street or track.

 

Coming from a track guy/ex racer , shift lights are a gimmick !
I had my led wheel swapped out of my FF for regular at dealer, hated the leds constantly flashing in my face

On the track whether in my RUF gt2 or gt3 cup whatever it may have been I would never have the time to rely or pay attention to lights on a damn steering wheel

If you do? You're not going fast enough

Want to argue with me? My buddy Leh Keen despises them and he will out wheel just about everyone on this planet

 

You can turn the leds off in the ff I believe under the settings menu. No need to replace the wheel!

 

Save money, just turn the lights off. Dealer got a win by keeping quiet.

In my m3, or Italia or Speciale, I have the lights and shift gizmos. Looks cool. And useful for the first month or so. But after that and on track none were useful. Just paid attention to the sounds. No time to look at the wheel, even peripheral.

I'd never buy w/o it though, think they add resale and look cool for the street. And people love them! I do too.

Not a fan of this treads bickering, for the record.

 

You can switch the lights off on a street Ferrari (as noted), and you can also dim/switch on most race cars (eg. for night driving).

Leh is among the very best GT drivers today, particularly in a 911 platform. He and Cooper were in the GPX simulator to prep for LeMans, too bad Cooper came down ill today. Keen and Miller will get plenty of seat time

Great video of Leh at Daytona this past year; you'll note the shift lights. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rerpuYzaJWo

Aside from the Ferrari street cars (and F1 wheels), most shift lights are dash mounted (typically as part of the dash/logger) and programmable/multi-colored.

me either. Done.

 

Exactly