The only people who ask for manual gearboxes are...

Agreed. That's why three pedal Ferraris command a huge premium over flappy paddle cars and a good part of why there has been such an explosion in the prices of True Driver's Cars over the past couple of years. A great many of us aren't interested in "driving" a video game on wheels.

 

There are far, far, FAAAAAAAR more paddle shift cars sold every day than manuals.

Speculation caused the price of Tulip bulbs to skyrocket. But, in the end, they were still just flowers.

 

You miss my point entirely.

When McLaren does it, it's heralded as some great leap for performance.

When Ferrari does it, its an insult to the "true" enthusiast.

There are good manual boxes and bad manual boxes. I had a Corvette C7 manual. After a year I gave it up. The idiotic 7 speed layout was impossible to master. It downshifted into 4th when I wanted 6th, it had no lock out for reverse, it should shift into 7th when I wanted 4th, and worst of all at times it stupidly would not let you shift into 2nd and went automatically into 4th "to save fuel".

Is this is what a manual needs to be today to meet fuel standards and emissions, you can keep it.

 

Yes we do drink warm beer , the kidney pie is not strictly true as its steak and kidney pie, if its a good one they put some of the warm beer in to it during cooking. Great stuff with a nice pastery top. Nothing wrong with a manual box.

 

Ditto. To date I have never owned an Automatic / Manomatic Car, nor driven ANY and Folks think I am plum crazy, as i have turned down the offer to drive several "Slush Box" exotic cars.

Perhaps I will go down in history as the last guy to drive a manual.

 

I only drive Ferrari 12cylinder with manual gearbox. For me it ist not important what is faster. Important is the feeling and the sound! The sound of the metal click by change the gear is wonderful. To change the gear with the clutch is so magic. Nothing for yoystick kids! Because of this I drive my 6 gear Maranello and my F512GTB (F355 with 512TR enginge and 5 gear transmission). When I want to drive automatic, I take my Rolls Royce....V8 with 3 gear automatic...

 

355 with a v12????.

We demand pics.

 

355 with TR engine, that has got to be some project, any pics to show a true piece of engineering

 

I had been a stick guy all of my life but it had ended with the sale of my 308. It doesn't make any difference as to how quick the paddle system is it's a matter of actually pushing on the lever during various maneuvers in the car. Now some ZF auto boxes are entering the DDC world and with that the stick will not come back. Also much of the youth of today never saw a manual as they were growing up so there is less and less interest in driving one. I also see this in various car shows where almost all of the old or custom cars are owned by white haired old guys. That is another sign of the times. Just my observations.

 

For driving every day in traffic an Auto/Paddle is easier and more comfortable.

For performance on a track, the Paddle's will be quicker. I've run both cars and the paddles are quicker. No miss shifts, etc.

For driving experience, a manual is the way to go. I actually feel safer at/beyond the limit with the 3rd pedal, 1 hand on the wheel, 1 hand on the shifter in a powerslide at 100MPH than i do at 60 with both hands on the wheel and 2 pedals. Its a control thing knowing that i have the ability and i don't have to rely on a computer.

I'm actually torn on a GT3 if i would get a new paddle one because its faster or an older manual because its a stick.

 

Many real car guys that are over 25 have taken years to master learning a stick, downshifts heel and toe being smooth etc, Now any geek non coordinated person can drive just as fast with F1. Ferrari said sorry you are old tech as well to these drivers forcing automatics on you.

So what you are faster driving in the street or back roads is not a race it's about enjoyment of the car, a well driven stick shift car makes it more one with the car vs a computer doing it for you. Ferrari and these other makers like McLaren don't get it which is why sticks have higher resale.

 

Thanks in part to the fact that new three pedal cars are getting very difficult to find.

Admittedly, when flappy paddles first came out people immediately started buying them in droves. I tend to think that would have changed somewhat over time once the gee-whiz factor wore off. It was cool to say you had flappy paddles when they were rare and only available in exotic cars, but the wow factor subsides a bunch once they become available in Ford Foci.

My main complaint is that Ferrari refuses to even consider offering the option, claiming no one was buying manuals anymore. If they'd offer a small, sub-3000 lb ~400 hp naturally aspirated V8 car with a manual box and no electronics other than ABS they could sell as many as they wanted, but instead they insist that every car they make be laden with every driver aid and gizmo they can think of. Porsche has proven that there is a market for such cars so it would be nice if the new Dino opened up that segment of the market for Maranello while the Ferrari brand continued to cater to the video game crowd.

 

I've had an F1 355 and just bought a manual 355. I've also had several more modern cars with DCTs and the older automated manuals.

Most of my driving is done on streets with a speed limit of 40 or under. On city streets a manual is much easier for me. On the track I would prefer an F1.

However, I never drive on the track and never intend to. I don't need or want a car that can do 0-60 in under 3 seconds. I'm not really sure where Ferrari, McLaren and Lamborghini go from here. Are we going to have 1000+ hp entry level exotics in a few years? Really, what is the point unless you'r going to track it?

To each his own though. I understand some people want bragging rights on having the fastest car. I know I'm not a race car driver so I don't really care about that.

 

I understood where you were going with that. What I was saying is that McLarens have a different focus and therefore appeal to a different type of buyer. They are more for the "numbers uber alles" crowd than for people seeking a car that inspires passion. I didn't watch a ton of Top Gear but I remember seeing Clarkson do a comparo between a Mac and a Ferrari in which he concluded that the Mac was the better car but the Ferrari was the one he wanted the most. To some of us, a car being engaging and capable of inspiring emotion is even more important than raw numbers, and a third pedal is a big part of that connection between car and driver..

As a track guy, I know the F1 system is faster. For one thing, it's virtually foolproof, although removing the potential for driver error does reduce the skill set required to be quick on the track (lowest common denominator racing). The really cool part about the F1 system is that it opens the door to driving techniques that can't be employed in a three pedal car. Full time LFB, for example. Up shifting in braking zones, which is rarely called for, but is a huge advantage when it's needed.

So yeah, the F1 system is certainly quicker on the track, but it does reduce the skill set required to be proficient and it is far less gratifying to be quick in a flappy paddle car than in a three pedal car. On the street it doesn't mean boo in the overall scheme of things, so I prefer the interaction with the car that the gated shifter provides. I am not interested in cars that don't give me that option.

 

Most of which are simply automatics with sluch clutches with flippy paddles.

My guess is if you count the vehicles sold every day with plate disk clutches, the sticks outnumber the flippers.

 

BS, they can shift as fast but there's a ton more to driving a car fast than working the gearbox. That's probably the easiest part to master.

 

The later manuals on the market i.e. 430s aren't selling. Most have figured out the premium is a passing fancy.

 

I've taught people to drive a stick in an afternoon without killing the clutch, so it's not like it's some complex art. Heel/toe downshifting properly is much more of a skill, but it's one of those practice/repetition things rather than a 'skill.' But, there's little point to it when there's a better transmission available. It used to be that manuals were the highest performance. Once automated manuals equalled and then surpassed them, the writing was on the wall as they served no purpose. I can heel/toe with the best of them but the fact is I can modulate the brakes more effectively without having to blip the throttle and feel what the car is doing more accurately with both hands on the wheel, so an f1 provides better control of the car. I think some people confuse feeling slightly out of control with more engagement, where I think better control of the car is more engaging. That said, under 450-500hp it's not much of a sacrifice. Above that and it is, imo.

 

Porsche just introduced a Commemorative 911 version with a ... 7 speed manual gear box. How sweet is that?

 

Great... but they just screwed up the "911 collector" market of people overpaying for cars that they thought would be "the last" Porsche manuals.

 

Very sweet.

 

NOT slipping a clutch?

Ever driven in REAL ice and snow?




If "it" doesn't have a "Stick & a Clutch" it will NEVER get my $$$$$$.

 

After watching Rafaelli Simone drift the 488 with Chris Harris I realized that Ferrari realized most buyers of NEW Ferrari's fit one of three categories:
1) The driver that never drives it above 80 MPH to and from dinner or the golf club
2) The driver that *thinks* they can drive it above 80 MPH that one time they took it out with friends when they got it (you see this drivers car on Wrecked-exotics.com)
3) Those very very small percentage of drivers that actually track their car

They realized that with all the nannies and the flappy paddles... driver 1 won't even notice but will tell all his friends about it, driver 2 will "feel" like they're a better driver than they are, and driver 3 will actually have faster lap times.

It makes idiots think they're good drivers and makes those that actually can drive even more competent. In short the car knows you.. you don't have to know the car.

They're not going to make a manual. With the power available you'd have more Carrera GT Paul Walker accidents because despite the fact that a person has the money to buy the car, it doesn't mean they have the ability to drive it. The PDK transmissions take this out of the equation (mostly). I LOVE my manual cars and I will probably buy flappy paddle as a daily in the future despite the lack of one-ness with the car that a manual gives. However, the paddle shifters let you optimize power delivery to the road that only experience lets you do in the 3-pedal.

 

In the UK if you pass your test in an Auto gearbox car, then you cannot drive a manual. Pass in a manual and you can drive an auto box. Most cars are manual but go to Aussy and they are all auto.Horses for courses