there is one guy in Italy with a turbo 308 i do not know if he installed a 3 liter engine on a 208 turbo or the complete turbo sistem from a 208 turbo in a 308...from memory it was a 208 turbo with a broken engine and he put a 3 liter instead of the original 2 liter engines... BUT the result is the same the car has a stock internals 3 liter engine with the stock ferrari turbo kit and not really much more ...may be some few basic mods the car worcked for some years without any problems the owner told it was fast BUT he did not push it really HARD a lot for fear of breacking something there were also turbo kit for the 308 carbed cars that were BOLT ON kits, so no different pistons, rods, cams, valves...etc pretty fast and reliable, even with VERY old tech
i think the 308 engine is pretty "strong" and can run with turbo or supercharged kits IF you are using low-mid boost. so for some additional 50-80 hp not much issues on the other hand if you are looking at 350-400-500 hp you need to build engine, trasmissions, etc...
Very cool and informative thread. I have often wondered about the performance of the turbo Ferrari engines. I just bought a 4 cylinder (modded) Lotus a few weeks ago and its way more powerful than my 328. Different cars for different moods! Image Unavailable, Please Login
The 308 engine cannot stand 1 bar of boost like the turbo intercooler: it has not the valve seats and valves that can stand such temperatures. You have to change them or it will be limited to 0,6 bar like the first not intercooler turbo, that was an umodded 208 with just low compression ratio (7:1) and a turbo system, that had many but many reliability problems. The cranckshaft and the engine cranckcase can stand 600+ hp, as basically it's the same as standard F40 and tuned racing F40. The turbo intercooler was well enginereed, while the first official 208 turbo wasn't: so maybe better don't try to do an "home made" turbo engine starting from a Ferrari base not engineered for that purpose. ciao
sure it cannot stand 1 bar or more, i i told low to mid pressure (as you said 0.5-0.6 or so) it is very doable and looks not going to explode anytime soon. ameritec was making low boost turbo kit for 308 carbed in the 70's...and i heard they were pretty reliable over this you need to modify the internals etc BUT 0.5 is not bad for a 308 or 328! it should make for a pretty fast car! not intercooler turbo was a bad car, true and first because of lack of intercooler
As a tech discussion, you are probably right. But I still do not understand why to waste money modifying a 328 engine with a turbo when with the same money (added to the loss of value of your 328) i can buy a 400 hp preowned Ferrari 360 Modena. The only true and important minus the GTB/GTS turbo has versus the 328 is the turbo lag, so i cannot understand why i have to add a lag problem (and many others) to the perfect 328 engine or to a carbed 308 engine. But i think this is possible, even if not reasonable, at least now, when all those are vintage cars: maybe 30 years ago it was reasonable, but i do not think it still is. Unless we are talking of a 1982 turbo modded car restore: that is another thing and it's a way to preserve history, like the Koenig Countach and so on. ciao
Yes. Now they are classic cars and i agree Still i love the 308 as a driver's car and its only fault is it lacks some power. I think a turbo 308/328 with 320 flywheel hp would be fantastic to drive I would like it much more than a 360
I like turbos because it does not cost a fortune to up the hp. I have an '86 944 turbo 2.5L. When new this half block 928 was rated at a mere 215 hp. Back in early '97 I installed a MAF, extrude honed intake and matching head, improved head gasket, bigger turbocharger, reamed throttle body, polished boost tubes, 16 pounds boost (factory was 12), higher fuel pressure, and a second oil cooler. It'll accelerate from 70-100 mph in a tick over 4 seconds at 50 degrees F (all 3rd gear). The engine had 90K miles when I bought it. It now has 194K miles and over 100 DE events. Speeds are correct because I have 60 series (instead of 45 series) on the rear for street use to correct speedometer that read high. My 349 hp SLK32 (supercharged) takes about 4.7 seconds for the same run. Porsche weighs 200 pounds less. It takes 6.25% more power to accelerate from 70 to 100 than it does from 65 to 95 in the same amount of time.
I agree that the 360 is very ugly! You are right, americans like very much car modding, that's Amazing, here is not so common. Ciao
so nice! setup as part of trackcar conversion. finished in 2011, crashed in 2011 and now again in the final stage ( paintjob) of being ready again Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I looked at the picture but i cannot understand where is the FI system and It looks without any intercooling, unless there is a water/air heat exchanger somewhere. It has a straight power diagram like a NA engine and a bad A/F ratio at mid RPM: that's uncommon. Could you tell me somethingmore about it? Thanks ciao
Hi Albert, this is the setup. no FI, its oldskool. But even than, without FI they did make these things work Btw, I considder the air to fuel ratio oke considdering the low ratio after 4,500 rpm, and that's where the power is. Intercooling is not an option with these systems. You do not want the mixture to condensate. Keep in mind, the turbo is not delivering compressed air but compressed mixture. This setup is actually essentially the same as the early Koenig setup. And with all the talk about the lack of power this system does just that. Not in a fancy way maybe, but by the time of development this was to the best of their knowledge and possibilities. And still a lot of owners would love to have a 300BHP 308 About the very nice curve. That's supporting my statement in the original thread on the setup: almost no Turbo-lack, just a straight pull from low RRM. Making it very drivable. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Thanks, Steven, very interesting. Then it compresses the air/fuel mixture: it can be dangerous and it's definitively old scool, you are right. What's the carb on the right, an Holley? and what is the small tank between the carb and the turbo? But i'm wondering if a 4 liter NA build wouldn't be easier and more effective: if you destroy the car originality, at least do it at it's best! The factory 2 liter turbo intercooler is better engineered (of course, that's factory made, your one is a tuner work) but in any case that's a very interesting build in Ferrari turbo car history: thank you very much for sharing. Ciao
that's what i said, ols skool The tank is the expansiontank replacement and also to heat up the mixture before in enters the turbo, again all to avoid condensation. during development this war are real issue to solve. They used the collingwater to heat up and redesigned the inlet manifold twice. Of course a 4L conversion is the better way. Easier? It took one weekend to bolt this one on. all DIY. however it also the difference between spending 1900 US$ i paid for the set against 50K charges for the engine...
Just 1900 USD? Great! i supposed a much bigger cost. The USA market has lower price than our european market: i was very inpressed when a friend show me his brand new Chevy small block 350 C.i. and told me it had 430 Hp and a cost of just 6000 USD including crome air filter, a big Holley and so on. A 430 hp 5.7 liter V8 turn key for 6000 USD: just an IHI turbo here costs more if purchased at Ferrari spare part service... That's amazing: here everything cost much more. ciao
today I did a small trip with the 328 GTS and with the GTB turbo intercooler (the turbo was just serviced with new spark plug cables, new spark plugs, distributors, CO setting and so on). They are both very low mileage cars, both recently tuned and perfectly running. They are TWO great cars and TWO excellent engines. The turbo has a fantastic sound at idle and low RPM, very loud and exciting. The 328 has much more bulk at idle and under 1500 RPM, but the sound at low rpm reminds more a washing machine than a Ferrari. The 328 sound is very good just over 6000 RPM. The 328 is more driveable, the turbo has a bit of lag (not so much as you can think, but it's not immediate as the 328) and a big kick at 3500 RPM. The sensation is that the turbo has much more power between 3500 and 5500 RPM than the 328. At 4000 RPM the turbo thrust is very impressive and you cannot believe it's just a 2 liter almost 30 years old engine. Which is the best? I don't know. I prefer the turbo as today those cars are no more daily drivers but just toys, so the turbo is much more exciting, while the 328 would be a better daily driver due to its smoothness. But they are both great cars, really fantastics turbo intercocoler plus: -sound -power -emotions -rarity minus: -low power around idle -a bit of lag -handle with care on wet 328 plus: -smoothness -power at very low RPM -driveability -reliability minus: -poor engine sound -not very exciting -large production engine MTBF 328: 180 000 km (113 k miles) turbo intercooler: 120.000 km (75 k miles)
Love to read all your posts Alberto, written with so much passion and enthusiasm. It makes me realize how special the GTB Turbo is certainly here in the Netherlands , the car is unique with only a few people ho can tell the difference between the 328 and say this 208 version. Owning the GTB turbo int.'86 now for more then 1 yr I am starting to understand her more and more. Off course I already had my costs (Italian charme as we call it) but I can assure you that this is a perfect match! Grtzz, Robin
Hi Robin, congrats for your very rare and very powerful GTB turbo intercooler! It's a superb car, very exciting. And I'm sure you already know what I'm talking about... It needs to be serviced and tuned (like all others Ferrari of that age) but it's very reliable: it's one of most reliable turbo cars ever, including Porsche. ciao
Some weeks ago a friend of mine with a Turbo Intercoooler has broken engine and turbo...car not a lot a km and all services from official dealer Ferrari, last service 5K maintenance...
Toni did many at 110-130 k km. I had FOUR (three GTB turbo and one GTS turbo) of them and no engine prablem in any. Are you sure it hadn't many miles or it was tuned up with icreased boost onthe wastegate? how he could destroy both engine and turbo? Toni Auto did one at 128000 km and the turbo still worked well so it wans't changed! ciao
One of the most impressive things about the 328 is its ability to pull from low RPM. You can give it full throttle at 1500 RPM in 5th gear and it will just pull away with no drama at all. That's pretty impressive and although that's not what anyone would normally do, it clearly demonstrates the engine's flexibility. That ability makes it very easy to drive in normal traffic without having thrash around shifting gears constantly.
correct, it's an engine with an impressive fexibility: that's one (and the best) of the plus 328 has. What you don't imagine is that a 30 years ago 2 liter turbocharged car has almost the same flexibility (I said almost, not the same, but it's impressive for such a small and old turbocharged engine). Trust me. ciao
