gtr vs elise

Opposite ends of spectrum. One heavy, powerful, big, awd, dct, tc, sc, tv, etc. Other light, small, low hp, stick, no computers, no nannies.

I had lots of gtr track experience and enjoyed being fastest car, pass everyone, rapid mult paddle downshifts, sliding rear end out, just floor it and go. Didnt enjoy the understeer, managing huge weight transfers, wearing out tires and brakes, need for cool down laps, difficulty being consistent.

so I traded it for a lotus elise that ive tracked for past year and am now repeating same tracks with it. Love the open roof, heel toe, manual steering, no body movement, ability to be consistent lap to lap, little use of consumables, nothing over heats, need to keep up momentum. But its slow compared to most instructor group rides and lack of tc/sc combined with fragile body makes me hesitant to push it.

so whats the verdict? I think the heavy, fast car is better. Hpde is basically a thrill ride and the gtr gives more of it. Was great learning to drive it hut can see myself getting bored of the lotus within another year or so. The gtr was a bucking bronco that cant be tamed compared to the trained pony ride lotus. Imo, the complaints against cars getting too heavy and computerized are false. Yes they have draw backs, but the thrill factor of a high speed gtr wins. At least until I try a powerful and light car....

 

Good writeup; thanks!

 

I'll have to disagree with you. I think the most highly skilled drivers come from momentum cars, ala F1 drivers starting young in Karting.

With a momentum car, one doesn't use HP as a crutch to make up for mistakes. If you make one mistake at turn in - brake too hard, or miss the apex,
or throttle on too slow etc. your mistakes will show in a momentum car. This is how you learn how to truly drive a car without the aid of all the electrical nannies.

I loved driving racing my supercharged Elise, S260 Exige and 211 on track and spanking Corvettes, Vipers, P cars etc. My fellow LotusCup racers were the fastest drivers I knew.
That's just my opinion and experience.


Sent from my 16M

 

What you say is true re momentum cars and the lotus is my first one so I really enjoyed learning the correct way to drive it. For example, if I dont get to full throttle right at apex or before, the turn is shot. I never had to really care about that before with my high hp cars. But now that ive got the momentum thing down at all the tracks I go to, I think I might start to get bored. It was always such a challenge to be smooth and consistent in gtr, lotus not so much. I guess I can always go to new tracks but its pretty uncomfortable for more than few hours on highways

and im only talking about hpde. Racing is another story. Would never get tired of competing in a lotus race car. Btw, mine is stock na one, not sc

 

Try a Porsche GT4: in between the other two weight wise, fast in the right hands.....

 

yes gt4 is cool car. had a beauty in my group other day. gray with double silver stripes over the top. would leave my standing on the straight.

im hoping my next car is back to Ferrari though. in mean time, I do like the lotus and will continue to hang out with the miatas.

I just think the complaints about how heavy and computerized modern performance cars have become is overblown. theyre more exciting to drive than the simpler ones imo

 

I've noticed the only time these smaller cars struggle with the big boys is on the straights.
Most track days, the momentum cars are quickest through the tighter parts of the track.

I track my Alfa 4c all the time. It's an absolute blast on the track and at times, feels quicker than my 360, though I know it's slightly slower over 100.

The exige, elise, evora and the 4C are pretty much all in the same class. Probably the biggest difference is that anyone can drive a GTR fast. Not everyone will be able to drive the elise fast. That's where Edward's comment about momentum comes to play. You drive these little cars almost like a kart. It's about braking deep and roll in speed.

 

Some of the most fun I have had in a car was reeling in a Z06 Corvette around Sebring in my Lotus. Sure, he blew me away and disappeared down the back straight, but I gained ground in Turn 17, a bit more in Turn 1, a bit more in the 3-4-5 complex, and so on. I loved the challenge of making every corner count.

Sure, riding a big HP beast is a blast too, but for me the sense of accomplishment from putting together a fast lap in a slow car was another thing entirely.

To each their own.

 

Great and informed opinions here. Keep this thread going, please!

 

For HPDE I enjoy being in a higher horsepower car, always having to watch my mirrors in a mo car gets tiring. For racing I enjoy being in a momentum car as the outcome is typically more dependent on driver skill (SM/SPB).

 

Just a quick thought on momentum - at recent track day (I'm a relative novice) I realized my brake pads were getting low with one more session to go so I decided to go ahead and do the session but with the goal of braking as lightly and little as possible. Instead of going for top speed in straights, I'd go only as fast as I could lightly brake down from and concentrated almost solely on carrying as much momentum as possible through the turns.

This turned out to be one of the best exercises I've done on the track - my lines were better and I carried more speed through turns even if my tops speeds on the straights were lower. It was really enlightening and my laptimes weren't much off what I did with full braking.

 

I agree, learning braking is far more important than stepping on throttle, and just as important as learning the apex/line. Anyone can mash on throttle.
What I learned later in racing through various instructors, it's how much speed you can carry through the turn to exit out with top speed. This all starts with braking.
As a novice I used to brake semi hard than harder approaching the turn - this was wrong. I learned later, fast braking with slow release (and later trail breaking). Then later fast hard braking with quicker releases, etc.


Sent from my 16M

 

good track exercise is trying to lap as fast as possible with NO braking at all. really teaches you how to keep momentum going

 

Add some HP to your Elise and it becomes a total package...You will go through brake pad quicker but if you can get into the 300+ HP range ONCE YOU KNOW the car you will be rewarded with an amazing car...I have had mine since 2005 and started adding handling options and then power. Now at 367+- at the wheels and can run with anyone but most can't run with me. Every once in a while I get the itch for something new and always come back to the Elise because its Fast, Fun and reasonably economical to track on a regular basis...
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nice pic with lifted tire!

avoiding adding hp to lotus because body is so fragile. any kind of front or rear end hit pretty much ends it.

will probably keep it stock, enjoy it as it is for few years, then hope to go back to ferrari

 

Problem with tracking a Ferrari is there is too much high $ risk and/or running costs. It is fun nonetheless.

No worries on the Elise body - simple clamshell that can be buffed, easy to repair if you know a good fiberglass repair shop.


Sent from my 16M

 

Now I know what to work on next time out!

 

just track more and work on the driving. you'll get fast in no time no matter what car you're in

 

What out of the ferrari models would be best to track? I know they are not considered great track cars but if one really wanted to track, which would be a good middle ground between performance, cost and being able to handle the brutal nature of tracking? 355 or 360 perhaps, with some modification?

It's been the one thing that has stopped me from buying Ferrari's, as I love to track and need a car that I can both drive when needed and go to the track 10-15 times a year. Porsche, in particular my 991 gt3 and now 991 turbo had been the only options I felt could double duty effectively. I know, better to have a dedicated track car, but I'm not there time wise or financially. Lotus are cool, but not my thing, gtr not my thing either.

 

If you want double duty then CS, Scud or maybe Speciale. But again running costs are high...tires etc.
One time tracking my Lotus a cone flipped and cracked my headlight. Imagine if this were a Ferrari headlight = $$$.

If track only, consider a 458 Challenge - now that would be fun to track if I had a fat wallet!


Sent from my 16M

 

Thank you and yes that's the issue, running costs versus performance. I know my GT3 and turbo will blow the doors off a cs and scud(gt3 pretty even here) and about even or slightly faster around track then the speciale, so I concede to lowering to equal at best track performance by using a ferrari. But the increased costs with lower performance is a deal breaker which makes me want to go to a lower ferrari model like a 355 of even 348, where i know the performance is much lower but hopefully the costs are as well.

Yeah now a 458 challenge, that's a whole other story but running costs again must be insane.

One day, one day

 

I am baffled by concerns of adding power to "fragile" Elise. There are pretty well-proven superchargers available and I've driven the Exige 240 at Spa and very, very few cars went by me. And of those, they might be faster on Kemmel, but by Pouhon I could be back alongside.

 

by fragile i meant the body work not the mechanicals. more power means more chance of a spin into something. even a minor hit often ends up totalling the car

 

I went from a GT3 to a 360 CH car. The CH car is faster (lap time) when driven well. Also faster then a Pcar Turbo & GTR. They will pass on straits but the CH gets them by the 2nd or 3rd corner after that. With 330hp @ rear wheel, they are not very fast (mph) or torquey, if someone slows you down it will take a few corners to get back up to speed, but very few cars will stay with me. The big $$ interseriers caymans (3.8l pdk lightweights)and cup cars - with very good drivers(no lazy boys) are very fast. IMHO- the 360 CH, with a bit of work(alternate +1slicks sizes and -200#), is one of the best track cars and a good value-reliable, speed, sound, feel, are just awesome.

I must disagree with the OP- the lighter cars are much more fun, and make for much better learning. My 997.1 Turbo, 650+hp is very fast but still 5+ seconds slower on a track like njmp Lightening, it would be closer on a power track like VIR. But for fun its no contest - anyone can push an accelerator, controlling a CH car drifting through a corner-priceless.

I run my Scud with a bunch of modified GT2's. Those cars dyno @ 750+ hp. The Scud is lightened (still has AC & power windows) and has suspension & wider wheels w 458 slicks. you can watch the GT's apply the throttle and jump 3 car lengths out of every corner, but better balance & later breaking keep me within 1-2 seconds/lap on power tracks like VIR. The Scud is +350# vs the 360CH and is a good bit more costly in slicks & brakes.

In my opinion, for the ultimate track car, a modified 360 CH is my new project. Goal - 2300# wet, twin supercharged (600hp/450tq), 10" front wheels. Should be a handful of fun!

 

Are you considering the new gtr, or what about the current nismo, friend of mine has one, seems to like the fatty pig

Awesome man, thanks for sharing, sounds like the 360 CH is going to be alot of fun for you. ANy pics of the beast?