PPI didn't catch this issue and now I'm being quoted $5000?

Hey gents

I had a ppi done on a 7000 mile 2001 Ferrari 360 spider (manual of course

Car was from out of state so I had the ppi done - came out fine besides some minor things.

Get the car to my home town and have it re-inspected and there's a dead spot while driving. CEL comes on and comes back Throttle Positioning Sensor #2 is out.

I'm not familiar with the TPS sensor and this shop wants $5000 to replace it? Does that sound right? Why does this sound crazy to me for a sensor and what can I do about the first shop not catching this??

Thanks

 

Not sure you can do anything to the 1st shop for missing this... Maybe it wasnt happening. I had the dealer do a PPI on my car and I had to replace a fuel pump within the 1st week of ownership. I left a bad yelp and google review, but no one ever contacted me about the review (or even a follow up about the car)...

I think you own it now, and it will cost you xx to replace the sensor to get your CEL to turn off.

 

Speaking to the shop that just did the ppi tomorrow. Its a reputable Ferrari mechanic/dealer and theres only been 5 miles on the car since the ppi so I assume they missed it.

 

You might want to get a second opinion on the part and/or research the error code here - there's quite a few TPS threads and the first suggested it may be an easily replaced USD 600 part - your profile is anonymous but is it possible wherever you are located that your mechanic is not fully trained ?

 

Im in Canada. The shop it's at now is a 30 year old reputable shop. I'm getting more info tomorrow. For now I've been told its TPS Sensor #2 and will get the error code.

Good idea. Thank you

 

This is why many shops no longer do PPIs. They might have missed it. But electrical components can be intermittent or just sudden fail. A PPI is not a guarantee. It is meant to give you an idea of the overall condition of the car. It is still as-is.

 

I can understand your frustration, however, as a mechanic for many, many years, I can attest to parts that suddenly fail without warning as was stated above. These cars are heavily on the electronic side and those are the worst kind of failures. Did the shop miss it...hard to tell. Did the second shop recommend a repair that may or may not be necessary...hard to tell.

Unless you are buying a car with a warranty, you are accepting a certain amount of risk, regardless of miles, and that is the nature of the beast.

Bought my car after the PPI said there was a whine/vibration in the gearbox that would require a replacement. I gambled, because I saw something that they didn't catch. The tranny mount was bad, causing a vibration since it was metal to metal contact. Changed it out myself and saved 1k over the cost of having shop do it and saved over 8k on a gearbox swap. That shop that did the PPI was one of the most recommended here on FChat, having been in business for decades and works on all exotics. I hold no ill will towards them and they still have my business when needed.

On the bottom of my PPI paperwork, I'm pretty sure that there is a disclaimer that states they are not responsible for anything found or not found. I'd be pretty surprised to find out that yours didn't have that.

 

I'm with Grayboxer on this one. The TPS is not some "hard to get to part" and it doesn't take much to replace one. It is located on the throttle body(s) and only takes a few fasteners to remove it. I'd get another quote.

 

^ this

 

I am no pro,

First off for my edification where exactly is the throttle position sensor. I assume #27 :



5k seems really high, find out exactly what they would be doing for that may include other unrelated stuff.



How long did you own/drive the car before the CEL came on?

IMHO There are to many variables, and impossible to hold ppi shop responsible unless they gave you a printout of the obd3, or sd3 which had this code on it and still "passed" the car.

I would call them and ask if they routinely plug a reader into the port as part of ppi. Since CEL's are so ubiquitous on these cars this really should be mandatory.

However for our community to learn from this experience it theoretically could be their "fault" if they:

1- Stated they connected it to a scanner obd2 and didn't notice or inform you of a code or pending code.

2-Other possibility would be the Ecu's were reset (battery off ) or ecu was specifically reset before they received the car. Shop should have noticed the drive cycle was not complete, and should not "pass the ppi" at least until completed.

3-Even if the drive cycle was complete the code may not come up unless specific circumstances are met and who knows what they are? e.g. spirited driving, normal highway driving etc. in my opinion a ppi should include a drive by a mechanic.

4-If the Car was put on sd3 should have come up unless #3




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Carrying out a PPI can be difficult, ideally a long test drive should be carried out, many/most sellers are not too comfortable with this nor the shops because of liability in event of a failure/accident.

The few PPI that I do anymore are very restrictive and as mentioned carry disclaimers.

 

Brian is right. A PPI is only an opinion based on a limited examination of the car. There is no warranty.

 

If the PPI was done at a authorized Ferrari dealer, and the inspection after that is done at another Ferrari dealer, you might have some recourse or fall back through Ferrari North America. I'm in Canada, and when I purchased my 456, I had the PPI done at a Ferrari dealer in the USA just so I would have someone to fall back on if something was found on the inspection after the car was brought to Canada.

 

Have them put in a used part and be done with it. Or better yet, do it yourself if it is the throttle body in the car. I presume they've done a reset with the power off and allowed it to relearn? Not the first time I've heard of the throttle body going bad.. Are they SURE its the throttle body? How about the potentiometer in the pedal?

$5k? I didn't know the Canadian dollar is so down.

Blame the PPI: how would this be detected? By driving it? What if it were an intermittent fault or wasn't there when they drove it? Were they allowed to drive it? You can't get everything in the PPI. I don't know if I'd do them. So much downside, very little upside.

 

Where in Canada are you located?

If it's in British Columbia, there is very little selection for qualified shops performing PPI's. As a matter of fact, probably only the single authorized dealership can do a semi-comprehensive PPI (with proper SD3 and such) on a car. They won't take the car on a proper and thorough road test as it does represent considerable liability if there is an accident.

There is no warranty with a PPI. At most, the dealership may provide you with a "discount" on the new part. Lastly, yes, our dollar is low........ which translates to higher cost for everything and due to the scarcity of supplies and expertise for these exotic cars, we get charged an additional premium for being in Canada....

Cheers
FN

 

Thanks for your responses.

I got the codes this morning 0221,1190,1194.

Researching if I can get the sensors at a better price.

 

Did we not get a thread from Canada for charging obscene amount of money earlier this year? Hope OP's shop is not the same shop that we found out he was charging like crazy.

Sorry for the OP for the surprise. Once you fix it and forget about it...

 

Things can fail post PPI, during shipping etc etc...
Hard to prove the failure as such existed at the time
Best of luck OP
This would certainly burn my backside!

 

That is a very low mile car. She sat a lot. Be ready for Cam seals leaks down the road if you start driving regular.

 

all you need is the the throttle positioning sensor itself, which is NOT $5000!!!!
replacing the unit is less than 5 min, by yourself! (as long as you can unclip some connectors)

 

$5000? You're getting gouged.. bad... really, really bad.

 

Yes! Get the part and go it yourself.

 

Did you get a written estimate? Hopefully, there is more to a $5000 estimate than a 5 min job (as people claim) replacing a sub $1k sensor...

 

Did you buy the car from a Ferrari dealer? I bought mine from one and they paid to fix a couple of latent issues I discovered after I took possession of the car. They can get the parts at cost and do the work themselves.

 

Dave I bought the car Private.

Kevin Cam seals were just changed when I did the belt service.

Current shop is saying have to replace the entire throttle body not just the sensor thus the $5k. FMOS said double check the wiring that goes to the throttle body, they have never had to to change this part - ever. Part #171716 Shop is going through basic trouble shooting first before I do anything. Second opinion will be in play by mid week if they don't solve it.