Today's Ferrari Market in Part Driven Down by Self-Fullfilling prophecy Doomsayers | FerrariChat
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Today's Ferrari Market in Part Driven Down by Self-Fullfilling prophecy Doomsayers

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by ExcelsiorZ, Jul 10, 2016.

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  1. ExcelsiorZ

    ExcelsiorZ Formula 3
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    #1 ExcelsiorZ, Jul 10, 2016
    The fact is the world is an an unprecedented state of economic affairs given Brexit. Yet the fact is the underlying economy, particularly the U.S. economy, is stable. There may be much speculation but we're not facing any global market collapses as we did back in 2007 or so. Here are some irrefutable realities: When the 360 came out there were few market alternatives. However, today there are almost countless options ranging in price from the mid $100k range to the millions of dollars: Ford GT, McLaren (from under $200k to over $1 million), Porsche (Turbo, 911R, GT2, GT3 and 918), Audi R8 V12, AMG GT and SLS, SL65 and SL63, ZR1 Corvette, Pagani, Bugatti, Keonigsegg, La Ferrari, TDF, Aperta, Speciale, F12, 488, Aston Martin DB11, Zagato Vanquish, Vanquish, V12 Vantage S, Jaguar F Type SV, Hennessey Venom, Lamborghini Aventador, Hurrican and a slew of limited edition versions, etc. Fact is there are a lot of people with disposable money and manufacturers around the world are cashing in!

    YET we have notable figures in the Ferrari Market community, seemingly every week, posting how the sky is falling! The decision to buy or sell a Ferrari and for how much is largely based on MARKET PSYCHOLOGY. If you promote a hot market the market is hot. If you promote the market is a "buyer's market" and you distribute a newsletter to a thousand or so enthusiasts you, sure as ****, cultivate a buyer's market!

    What is real is that unlike the stock and commodities markets, which can rocket up and down as paper money, a Ferrari is TANGIBLE and rolling performance art that, even if the stock market tanks, will still be sitting in your garage ready to be gazed upon and driven as Enzo intended.

    Fact: As the world's population continues to explode and as third world countries transition to places where there is economic wealth there will always be a limited number of Enzo era Ferraris (and 550/Barchetta/SuperAmerica, etc.)

    The funny thing is the latest "newsletter" talks about how important "marketing" is.....yet fails to grasp the bigger picture. The intrinsic value of Ferrari Art and its rightful place in the world.
     
  2. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #2 TheMayor, Jul 10, 2016
    Rob needs to start another Fchat for people who think their cars are a commodity. Maybe call it "FerrariWatch" and it can be a show on CNBC.

    Then the rest of us who care about the mark can avoid this kind of drivel.
     
  3. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    #3 Texas Forever, Jul 10, 2016
    Cool! Will it have bikini babes? Maybe some fire pit jumping? Rumbles between the ponies and the bulls?
     
  4. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

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    #4 4rePhill, Jul 10, 2016
    Should a Ferrari-specialised website not cover all aspects of Ferrari ownership then? - Including market values and trends?
     
  5. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #5 TheMayor, Jul 10, 2016


    Ranting about Brexit doesn't sound much like a Ferrari site topic, does it?
     
  6. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
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    #6 LARRYH, Jul 10, 2016
    seems like it belongs in a site called Ferrari chat.. the beauty of this site is there are many sections and many threads in each section,, so anyone that really wants can skip any thread to avoid unnecessary "drivel"..
    to me anything concerning cars or market valid is of interest .. or new models etc etc..
     
  7. good2go

    good2go Formula Junior

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    #7 good2go, Jul 10, 2016
    +1

    I bought the car to drive, not to add to my portfolio.
     
  8. good2go

    good2go Formula Junior

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    #8 good2go, Jul 10, 2016
    I think its a great topic. But there are owners that drive the cars, and owners that see them as investments.

    I bought my car to drive.

    Definitely two different camps.
     
  9. tundraphile

    tundraphile F1 Veteran

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    #9 tundraphile, Jul 10, 2016
    The US is "stable" because of unsustainable deficits and near-zero interest rates. Having the currency of petroleum allows this for the time being. The question is whether the new POTUS will push for fiscal responsibility or be forced to after kicking the can a little further down the road. I hope the former but expect the latter. Either way and especially if it is uncontrolled, you will see people worldwide that feel secure and well-off with a Ferrari in the garage today dumping them as they did in 2008/09.

    A Ferrari may be a tangible asset, but it is also fairly illiquid and costs money just sitting there doing nothing, unlike something like gold, silver, or even blue-chip stocks after a big correction.
     
  10. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

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    #10 Themaven, Jul 12, 2016
    Mr Mayor, democracy and debate (and the best elements of Fchat) are all about disagreeing with the opinions of others while not wishing to deny them the right to air their views. You are an individual, as is the OP. Listen, engage, disagree with passion if you wish; but sneering and saying in effect: 'You are not permitted to say that here', is destructive to the intelligent and enlightening debate I am sure, as a veteran of so many tens of thousands of posts, you have enjoyed reading as much as the rest of us.
     
  11. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

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    #11 Themaven, Jul 12, 2016
    ExcelsiorZ, doesn't the choice of cars you list in your post mean that the market for Ferraris will inevitably be driven down by increasing supply of alternatives for buyers?
     
  12. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    #12 Texas Forever, Jul 12, 2016
    Damn Brits. You guys don't get it. Here's how we do it in the states: You suck! :)
     
  13. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #13 TheMayor, Jul 12, 2016
    My response -- MEH

    Ranting about Brexit and how it may or may not effect "the value" of a Ferrari is not for an enthusiast site. Are we going to talk about how the Russian Ruble effects the "the value" of our "possessions" or how the Chinese are manipulating their currency? Is that really what Fchat is about?

    If this was a site about how to make money, I get it. But, is it?

    If you want to treat Fchat as an commodity exchange, go for it. Maybe we can have a debate about the future of pork bellies at the same time. It seems to me many think there's not much difference between owning and exotic car and the future price of pork.
     
  14. Gran Drewismo

    Gran Drewismo F1 Rookie

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    #14 Gran Drewismo, Jul 12, 2016
    I'll decide.

    I like the idea of bikini babes though.
     
  15. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    #15 Texas Forever, Jul 12, 2016
    Great, you're in charge of the photography department.
     
  16. WJGESQ

    WJGESQ Formula 3

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    #16 WJGESQ, Jul 12, 2016

    Like stocks the price gets driven up then gets hammered. Just look at the last four months of STX.


    The recent rise in the 308-,Testarossa-550 series cars had a big run over the last 18 months. The dust always settles.
     
  17. whturner

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    #17 whturner, Jul 12, 2016
    AMEN!

    Cheers
    Warren
     
  18. ExcelsiorZ

    ExcelsiorZ Formula 3
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    #18 ExcelsiorZ, Jul 13, 2016
    I do not think there are two different camps. Someone buying a car for hundreds of thousands of dollars should, unless they have money to burn, consider the value retention of their vehicle. If you by a Daytona you can drive it but also you'd like to know the money you've spent, north of 1/2 a million dollars, is not going to evaporate but will likely appreciate or at least hold its value.

    I know first hand a number of top collectors. While they may not be looking to sell their cars and capitalize if the market goes up the reality they don't want to see their "investment" go down.

    I am not talking about all the modern leased Ferraris, I'm referring to Ferraris that people bought and own. Yes, they drive and enjoy them but I know for a fact many of the top collectors are mindful of their car's values.

    People who have money to buy cars that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to millions of dollars did not get to where they are by being wasteful and unwise with their money.

    My original point of the post has been lost though: My point is this. If people in the market negatively portray the Ferrari market (which is exactly what it is) and promote it as being negative there will result a negative psychology that will then make the market negative. Who knows, perhaps the people spreading this negativity are looking to push the market down in order to buy more Ferraris or broker more deals.
     
  19. Perfusion

    Perfusion F1 Rookie

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    #19 Perfusion, Jul 13, 2016
    Somebody say pork? You have my attention... #hungry
     
  20. good2go

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    #20 good2go, Jul 13, 2016
    As I said two different camps.

    I bought my Ferrari. I spent over $250K for my car. I was told "you should not drive much it will decrease the value". I responded with "I will drive the heck out of the car". Its a car. Its a car that is an absolute blast to drive. The car does not show up anywhere in my portfolio or net worth.

    Now you have collectors that buy as an investment. They hopefully understand the market, the demand and hope the car will appreciate. They have no desire to drive the car because it goes down in value.

    So you have two camps, drivers and investors. Can a car be both? Not with a single car.

    Can you have a bottle of wine as an investment? Sure, or you can drink it. You can't do both.

    I'm not saying one is better than the other. Ferrari driver, or Ferrari investor.
     
  21. Schatten

    Schatten F1 World Champ
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    #21 Schatten, Jul 13, 2016
    We can call it Ferrari Market List, or just FML for short.
     
  22. Voda

    Voda Formula 3

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    #22 Voda, Jul 13, 2016
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  23. Voda

    Voda Formula 3

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    #23 Voda, Jul 13, 2016
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  24. Voda

    Voda Formula 3

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    #24 Voda, Jul 13, 2016
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  25. Gran Drewismo

    Gran Drewismo F1 Rookie

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    #25 Gran Drewismo, Jul 13, 2016
    How do you look in a two piece?
     
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