Todt happy with the current state of F1

Wrong. Many drivers are quoted as saying they want big displacement loud engines back. These include the big dogs, such as Vettel, Button, Ricciardo and Alonso. Many consider this the "real" F1. No one gets thrilled by gas mileage or MGU-power, sorry.

You're constantly moving the goal posts, first it was "these cars are the fastest ever" now its "as fast or faster over one lap depending on the track" but you're still wrong again. The track configuration at Bahrain has changed since the actual fast cars (2004-08). It changed in 2012. I suppose the current cars are the fastest of the lame ones of recent years. Austria? That's a brand new track layout, the old one was destroyed and replaced and the fast F1 cars never raced on this layout. It's been around since 2015...so they're faster than last year. Yay. Again, the current cars are NOT EVEN CLOSE to the fastest cars ever. They will set no lap records. Mark my words. Not one. Next year, they may have a chance.

Wrong yet again. Their car was nowhere near the fastest that weekend. They had a great start and got the lead, but there is zero evidence to suggest they could have maintained it. The Mercedes was nearly a second faster in qualifying. Win on "sheer pace" - LOL.

So first you said ever, now it's the best in recent memory? Which is it? If we are going recently, I would say 2012 was the best. 6 WDCs on the grid. As for era, early 90s is hard to beat. Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Mansell, Hakkinen, Piquet, Alesi, Berger, etc.

It's well known. The drivers lift and coast, save fuel, save tires, don't push except for brief periods. This is one of the least physically demanding eras of F1 ever. The drivers have said as much. Again, GP2 guys are testing and are immediately fast. They say the jump isn't big. I remember Webber being quoted as saying all the young guns at a test when he was starting were terrified of driving the V10 F1 car. Back when the cars were the real deal.

 

He was the right man for the Scuderia, unfortunately he's the wrong man for the FIA.

 

+1


To be honest, the last 3 FIA presidents were disliked: Ballestre, Mosley and Todt.

I suppose it goes with the job.

 

If you give them the choice of two engines, they will take the more powerful one every time. Doesn't matter how much noise it makes.

Bahrain had been the same layout except in 2010, 3.63 miles 15 turns. 2010 was 3.9 miles 23 turns.

2012 had Maldonado on the grid, hence can't be the best of any era.

I care less about physically demanding vs the total skill it takes. Take off power steering and make the brakes steel and voila, they're the most physically demanding cars to drive ever, but who cares? It improves nothing. The drivers have to manage a ton more parameters in the cars than they used to.

If they went back to the v8's I'd stop watching. If I want to watch antiques I'll watch Nascar.

 

Is there any evidence that these engines are more powerful than the V10s?

My apologies you are correct on that point. They managed to run a few tenths faster in qualifying this year than they have ever been on the track prior. That said, it was unseasonably cool there this year, the announcers commented on it. Also, the fastest race lap (where actual lap records are recorded) was 1:34.4, 4.2 seconds slower than the fastest lap and lap record that still stands to this day from 2004. That is an eternity. Fact is, no lap records will be set this year and the cars are not even close to being the fastest cars of all time. Not. Even. Close. Even with stopping for fuel the Ferrari F2004 would easily lap the Mercedes W07 in a grand prix.

Maldonado catches a lot of flak but he is a F1 race winner. Let me know when Ericsson, Nasr, Harayanto or Palmer accomplish that. That grid also had Schumacher. Sorry but you're wrong.

The more physically demanding the cars are the harder they are to drive, it's not a difficult concept to understand. These cars aren't even close to the hardest cars to drive historically. In addition, the conditions in a race also make it that much easier. The drivers don't push anymore except for maybe 5% of the race. This is the reason you see commonly GP2 guys come in, test and immediately turn fast laps only tenths off established drivers. Numerous F1 drivers, past and present, have brought this up.

Lol, antiques. That sort of hyperbolic statement really weakens your argument, FYI. The previous engines were incredibly advanced pieces of engineering. The current motors have more tech, but are not even close to as exciting.

In summary, you are turned on by managing tires and fuel, driving laps to a delta, and quiet V6 engines. Bizarre take, but it's your opinion.

 

They don't. At best they make around 950 bhp (whilst end of V10 era they made over a 1000, I think Honda or BMW was at 1050 even). But the V6's don't make the full power for a long time. They have that for a lap or so and then need several laps of recharging and deploying a lesser amount before they can deploy full power, for a lap.

 

The fact the cars have the same or slightly quicker one lap pace than the v10's despite having less downforce, worse tires and more weight would point to not just a little more power, but a lot more.

Qualifying trim is where they are the absolute fastest. The race pace difference is due to the cars having a full tank of fuel when they are on fresh tires and by the time they have low fuel, they have 20-30 lap old tires due to tire limitations. Hence the race lap times are not comparable due to no refueling and the tire rules. If you disallowed refueling the v10's and limited the number of sets of tires they could use, they'd be a lot slower in a race lap. Has nothing to do with the speed of the car.

I never said they were the hardest to drive, but they're certainly not the easiest. They also require a lot of skill, which should be at least as important as physical effort. You don't see GP2 drivers coming in and matching the lap times of the f1 guys, not even close. Yeah, physically they can drive them but that's a conditioning thing, it doesn't mean it takes less skill, which is the important thing.

the NA v8's and v10's are old tech, period. v10's aren't even in production cars anymore, the last one is the viper and it's being discontinued. NA engines are on their way out. Investing in NA engine tech in f1 would be stupid as there isn't real-world application of that tech anymore, so it'd be wasted money by the manufacturers. Part of f1 has always and will always be technology development. Get rid of that and you don't have f1 anymore. The locked development v8's were the low point of f1 imo, anathema to what it's about. But yeah, they sounded good, which is literally the least important aspect of a PU in my mind.

 

That's also a good point. Peak power is a little less, but the overall usable power is a lot higher, at least over one lap as they have a ton more area under the power curve.

 

I hope through F1 PU innovation, someone w more brains than us will develop something non-artificial that will make forced induction motors wail and shrill like the "old tech" V8s, V10s, V12s.

Coz anyone who's been to a gp this or last season will tell you, the sound the cars make is $h!t. Same applies to the current fi road going benefactors...488 sounds $h!t compared to an NA 458, but yes it's mighty fast.

 

Well, there's the Audi R8, and the Lamborghini Huracan for starters....... I'm pretty sure there will be one or two others. V10s were never going to be mass market, but doesn't make them less relevant or less spectacular.

The current twin turbo V6's are great for touring cars and little racing cars, but the pinnacle of motor sport should be exactly that, the pinnacle. V8s, V10s or even V12s are the fastest and most powerful engines, so these should be in the cars. The noise should be loud, as the pinnacle should be exciting, noisy and an event.......

 

The Lexus LFA was a fantastic V10.

 

So my take from this is that if you don't agree with Todt, he just called you stupid. Nice.

 

Current cars have (much) more downforce than the cars of the V10 era. Wider front wings, much more advanced aero, longer floors, DRS on straights. Engines produce less peak as you say, but more torque, and then the electric power too. The slicks have more grip, too. You are correct on the weight, 95kg more than before.

I went to an F1 race this year and the F1 are the least loud cars of the weekend. I think on par with the Porsche Supercup noise. GP3 and GP2 especially is much louder. Noise shouldn't be the deciding factor but it IS an important factor. My twin brothers where with me (10 years old), they don't watch any racing really. When we got to the track, they got bored after half an hour watching the F1 cars. When the GP2 cars came on track they had a HUGE smile on their face for the entire session. After that it was FP2, and they asked ''when are the cool cars coming again?''. Says it all...

 

2 dishonest scumbags and a yes man. All-star crew.

I think it's the people, not the job.

 

Ha. There you go.

The best open wheel racing in the world right now, for drivers to show their talent, is Indycar IMHO. The cars are actually not that far apart in performance vs F1 either and a lot of the tracks are more exciting. Smaller teams can also score well at times with good drivers and hard work. The physical challenge is far greater as well.

F1 is the tech and commercial leader though; there is no doubt there.

 

I agree with you 80%.

The problem with Indycar, or IRL and CART before, is that it is seen as an US national series compared to F1 which is a World Championship.

But I do like the fact that it's a team championship, as opposed to a constructors contest.
Indycar can control cost and maintain parity between teams.

 

I think street cars with multi-cylinder atmo engines are in the last chance saloon...

Manufacturers adopt turbo not to boost power, but to obtain a better combustion and meet the increasingly strict emission regulations.

 

Why would f1 need to reflect the mass market, it should be elitist and extravagant, I buy Ferrari because they are the some of the fastest and best handling road cars you can get, part of that is having special engines that most don't have. F1 ceases to be spectacular with daft little 1.6 turbo sixes making fart noises I'm afraid. I won't pay to watch a GP live now, whereas I used to go to a lot

 

+1!
Same here! F1 is sick... I used to watch every GP since my youngest childhood = 1970's
Since the fake stuff started, such as DRS, the hybrid nonsense, and the idiotic but 'politic correct' Safety Car crap, F1 is a scandal.
F1 is ruled by morons.
Pilots as Villeneuve (Gilles), Rosberg (Keke) Prost, Senna, Piquet, Mansell, ...would NEVER agree with these sick puppet shows.
Drivers of today (apart from Max maybe) are lazy, scared, babies and they 'd better plan their future baking pancakes.

 

This is the case with every sport I used to watch. Either I'm getting old and cranky, or the new digital technologies are changing the things are done.

Rule by tracing what trends on digital media.

 

After another SC start in Canada this year, I tend to agree. As Furoni stated, F1 is crap on all levels. Having been an attendee since 78, how could I disagree. Totally infuriating for a geezer like me (no comments!!! lol). Prequalifying, multiple cylinders, NA vs turbos, no SCs, track access and DNFs (no rev limit!!!) made F1 worthwhile, concurrently, the average finish was unpredictable and well worth the inevitable yawner occurring here and there. Now, inevitable yawners are typical and the only possibility of an exception to the rule, a wet race, has effectively been exterminated. Halos should be the final nail in the coffin for *US* . Once the diehards are gone, they are done.

 

+1
I doubt very many people buy their Renault or Mercedes purely because they participate in F1. Percentage wise I think we're looking at .1 percent of Mercedes/Renault buyers buy them because they participate in F1.

 

Back in 1980 Ferrari tested an automatic gearbox (yap...the 640 from 1989 wasn't the first)....Gilles looked at the contraption and just said " i don't ever wan't to hear about it during the rest of my carreer"")...and nobody did!!
Back then, racing was o pure, as Izzy said, anything could happen, it was impossible to say who was going to win a race, because simply nobody could be sure to even finish the race!!!
Ferrari could have the worst car on teh grid but, since Gilles was driving thye car, we could still hope to win it!! Nowadays everybody knows what's gonna happen, bad weather was the only variable..no more. I have skipped the last couple of races, i i simply don't have any more interest inj going on. If Someone tyold me to choose, i would much rather see Ferrari in lmp1 then at f.1...i had more interest in watching the Risi car at Le mansthen Seb and Kimi!!
The championship is being dominated by too average drivers!!! good drivers but no more then that!! when we think of Shumacher, Alesi, Mika, mansell, senna, Prost...these current generation of drivers is as useless as dead horse!!! The cars are ****, the drivers with no personality, and even if they had one, the marshals won't alllow it. F.1 is dead. I don't care if the car goes 5 seconds faster or 10 seconds slower, what matters is how the drivers drive the damn thing!! just the other day i posted a video of Mansell batling Piquet , driving saloon cars...it was fun, it was great..1000x better then watching Elton vs barbie!!!
So sorry Jean Todt, but **** you and your f.1!!!

 

Because that's why the manufacturers want!! Honda, Renault, Mercedes at least were very enthusiastic about a complex hybrid formula to showcase their technology.
The FIA bowed down to those most likely to invest in F1.


Same here, I only follow F1 through the media nowadays; I wouldn't spend a penny for it.
But I am sure F1 has captured a new audience looking at it from a different angle.
F1 isn't even commented the same way it used to be 25 or 30 years ago.

 

Yep, F1 used to be important enough to tell manufacturers what to do, ie, if you want to showcase tech, build yourselves a decent sports or supercar, that will then carry f1 tech. Now it's a bunch of manufacturers telling f1 hey, our loser cruisers and dopey hatchbacks have downsized little lawnmower engines in them, we want the same in our f1 cars...... Sad, f1 I'm convinced will cease to exist in a few years. There are lots of formulas to showcase smaller engines and hybrid crap, doesn't need to be f1