Possible to get a decent 360 for <= $60k?

I wager a counterpoint. If there is an equivalent item that you can buy for the same amount of money than that serves as an alternative to the purchase at hand. In this case you have F1 360's and 430's and you have manual 360's and 430's.

If you want a 360 or 430 and you are willing to consider other cars for the same price point, what can you buy? For F1 360's you have PDK porsches maybe a GTR? For manual 360's you have what? a corvette or porsche? I think this differential is already priced into the market and people buy for the weekend experience. Thus the auto car might be fine as a DD.. but for the weekend you want a different experience.

I also think people need to be careful in the assumptions that are made for the used Ferrari buyer. The last recession saw the wealthy getting pinched and deleveraging. I don't know if that would happen today to the same extent. It might.. but not so sure. Will the buyer that can afford to buy an $80k car without a warranty be that worried about loosing his job as your "average american"? I doubt it. I suspect their financial position in life is more certain so to speak. Will a doctor or lawyer or not have clients if the economy tanks? The answer is no. Will this type of buyer "feel guilty" about having something nice in the garage? No. They also don't NEED to sell it, so they don't HAVE to lowball it. Occasionally they might want to dump it, but its the minority of cases we've seen here.

The end result is what is the motive to have the price drop if the seller can afford the car, doesn't NEED to sell it and take a loss, and doesn't have significant debt that they have to pay off? I don't see it this time to the same extent.

 

I don't think you will regret selling Corvette because 360 is a better driving experience manual or F1. If you don't plan to sell then get the color you like. Red sells fast but I prefer dark grey with blood ox interior

 

You won't regret it, F1 or gated. Both exhilarating to drive.

Plus value is more stable IMHO.

 

There were too many thread regarding F-1 or gated shifter. Ferrari will NOT make any new cars with manual transmission as an option anymore. A lot of people love manual transmission as we grew up driving them. With curent tech evolution, there is less demand for it for new models, which is a FACT. Current cars are too quick and manual transmission will not do a good job in performance (Track and Racing). And people who purchase faster Ferraris want the new technologies. However, we love the action of your left foot and right hand.... I also love driving a manual car. However, it is becoming obsolete especially in the Ferrari World. The demand is very high for gated shifter in secondary market and that is why we see a price hike (Premium) for this. I do not have to repeat this over and over again.

You are looking for a 360 in $60K range is extremely hard itself plus gated shifter makes it even more impossible. I looked through few sites and found a 2001 360 spider, 33,000 miles, gated shifter. Grey and red interior and all the services are done according to the seller. I thought it is too good to be true with the price, then found out that the car was a Canadian model came to US. You will have harder time selling it and that is why the price is lower than any other out there.

I personally think this is as low as you could find at the moment for a gated shifter. There are few 360 modenas with higher miles that are listed for $60K's but they are all F-1. Overall price for 360 will not go down further is what experts over here foresee (Unless market crashes again). There is a posibility that one will pop out of someone's garage with 70K+ miles on it without proper service records. Or an angry wife getting divorced puts one in the market for $30K to piss off soon to be ex-husband. They are all possible.

IMHO, getting a decent (good) maintained 360 for $60K is not going to happen. If there's one, I will grab it right away.

F355 prices with Testarossa went up so fast in 2 years. Now, F355, F-1 with low miles are listed at high $80's or even more for gated shifter. Ferrari cars are in a totally different game segment compared to other well known DD cars. You need to prepare for the surprise (?) when you own a Ferrari. It comes with the car and most of us are always prepared for the next event. Ferraris, especially from 360 are very reliable compared to my experience with other cars. It just costs a lot more to repair when there is an issue. A lot of chat members do it by themselves and this forum will help you to do so.

The price of one Ferrari isn't everything. You could pick one up with low price but will end up paying the difference to make the car reliable. You need to look for a good car that you like the color combination, options, mods and etc first if you want to get into Ferrari life.

You really need to think about this aspect, otherwise, you will be an angry owner of a Ferrari at the end. Well sorted cars come with the price tag plus your commitment. That is the difference between a vette (or others) vs Ferrari.

 

I guess we'll see. Just trying to help/guide the original poster...here we have someone looking at a $60K budget, buying a house, and who wants to maintain a good credit score.

Moving away from the original poster specifically, if one buys a $65K F1 360 it might be $70K after tax- if that car has a $10K repair bill (happened to me twice since having a Ferrari over the past 7 years) an owner is into this car for $80K plus whatever other maint/insurance costs he has incurred. If the economy tanks that car may be worth $55K or less if the seller loses his job and wants to keep making mortgage payments or simply feels guilty having such a possession between jobs and wants to move it quickly. (A scenario like that is what I meant by feeling guilty that the toy is in the garage).

Same with stick 360s- if someone pays $85-90K for a stick, it's close to $100K with taxes...same scenario and maybe the car is worth $70K or less with a down turn and desire to sell the car reasonably quickly.

We've seen this before- I bought my 360 in 2009 in the same scenario from a seller liquidating his collection. I love the 360 and over time it will probably go up in value (along with inflation), but given the original poster doing diligence on buying a Ferrari (which is the right thing to do), probably better to look at potential downsides than through rose colored glasses and not assume any appreciation, but depreciation and a net outlay of cash from the whole exercise if required to sell the car down the line.

Owning a $60k-80K+ toy doesn't mean the owner is a millionaire or multi-millionaire and the reality is that downturns/recessions affect the value of a car like a 360 maybe more than 250 SWBs and NART spiders. Speaking for myself, I'm no a doctor or lawyer so I know I think twice about things Mortgage, retirement savings, kids college, etc etc...I've been through 3 restructurings so far in my career & probably will be a few more!

I agree with the comment that someone made- If the original poster can work out finances that he is comfortable with it would be worth selling both the corvette and crossfire to have what is truly the most amazing ownership experience for 99% of car nuts by getting a Ferrari. He won't miss either the vette or crossfire much!

Hopefully from all the back and forth everyone is having in this thread, the original poster is being helped (and gets to his goal of 360/Ferrari ownership!)

 

Much easier to replace a Vette too. Many many more to choose from, no indication of appreciation on late models.

 

I guess I worded that wrong. As someone else mentioned, TRs, F40s, and 308s will fall some when the markets fall, but neither car will ever reach its low again.

I should have said, is the current trend in 360 appreciation more than just a boost in the markets? In other words, is it going up now more than it will fall later?

We know 360 prices have risen over the last year or so. What we don't know is whether they're just bobbing around with market fluctuations, or if they are really coming off their true lowest point for good.

 

This thing is sold, I tried to buy it

 

I agree. You really can't pin a value at any moment by looking at current asking (or offer) prices. However, if asking prices have been falling for 15 years as they do with nearly all cars, then all of sudden start increasing for 18 months straight, I think you can say with reasonable certainty that values are on the rise unless there's something else to explain the odd change of course in asking prices.

Absolutely, that's why I wanted to better understand your opinion, because I recognize I may be biased.

Trust me, I don't think anyone is offended by this discussion!!!

Frankly, my car is an F1, so any increase in value over the last 18 months has been two or three percent, and it's still worth less than what I paid. I'm not looking to cash in like I bought a hot stock. But, despite what some people say about 360s being nearly as common as Toyota Camrys, I still think of it as a collectible and keep an eye on value trends as part of the hobby.

 

Maybe I missed it but where are you located? I have a 360 Manual and if you want we can go for a drive, I am just north of Atlanta in Cumming.

 

Gated 360 for under $60K = beeny weeny budget with caviar taste

Don't go by all the hype of the gated vs F1 (lets not start ANOTHER discussion about that). You need to drive a 360 first before making any decisions. Gated vs F1 are two totally different buying decisions. A gated 360 stands to appreciate and the number of miles driven will certainly have an impact on its future value. A F1 will never be a collectors car as there were just way too many built. So, if you buy a F1 you drive it alot, don't worry about the miles and enjoy it.

I owned a 348 and really did not like it, as it was small, loud, and unreliable. So, I traded it and got the 360 F1. After owning the 360 for two years, I negotiated with the dealership to trade up to the 430. After test driving the 430, I really did not like that car as it was too refined (for me). So you REALLY need to test drive the car before making any decisions.

Find a local Cars and Coffee that has Ferrari members and attend to get to know them. Eventually, somebody will let you drive their car.

I think if you find a 360 for $60K you will end up having $75K in it by the time you are done. Clutch, fixing the leather bubbles in the dash, fixing the worn seats, fixing any leaks etc. will end up pushing the initial cost higher. You really need to increase your budget.

 

I agree with the people saying you are basically limited to F1 at your budget. However, I think it is to your advantage that any moderate mileage on these cars completely destroys their value.

If you find, for example, a 50,000 mile F1 that has been meticulously maintained, services performed, no bubbles, no worn seats, no leaks, and in generally great shape, I think it will sell for $60k or less. That's just the way it is with these cars right now. It will be tough to find, but I'm sure they're out there.

 

IF they weren't done they aren't that expensive to have done. I had my variators done some years back and I have a Spider. Top out, new clutch, variators, belts, fluids, plugs, and some other stuff was only about $13K. Then again, you do it all at once you save a lot on overlapping labor.

 

Matt (Redneck)
Let me share my Ferrari hunting story with you (I actually pulled my records)
I had several cars with advanced negotiations before pulling the trigger, some of them I regret not purchasing them (or returned them because it was in the contract) because the prices have sky rocketed since then.

1) January 2010 1992 512TR yellow/black 40k miles ZFFLG40A9N0092145
this is the one I regret the most because I had it for only 53.5k, no PPI was performed and I knew I was going to be spending a lot of money in no time, my wife told me I was crazy so I cancelled the transaction. (I know I know), I show 512TR market prices often to her just to remind her haha.

2) September 2010 550 Maranello 1997 black/black 38k miles, 54k ZFFZR49A0V0109664, I used the car for a couple of days, I had a PPI scheduled but I returned the car after things starting to fall apart, "slow down" lights appeared on day 1 and according to the seller that "never happened before", I do not regret returning this one.

3) April 2012 550 Maranello 1998 black/black 35k miles, 57.6k ZFFZR49A5W0113145, I performed a PPI and the dealer was a piece of work he actually ended up pleading guilty of defrauding customers and money laundering
I regret not getting this car though, the poor car had a very bad ending.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/456-550-575-sponsored-bradan/364336-careful-dealer.html

4) December 2013 512TR Red/black-red 1992 11k miles 61k ZFFLG40A4N0092215
this one had a salvage title and a really weird interior and chrome wheels, but I wanted to put money on top of it to change them, during the PPI it also lacked all pre cats and cats and it was 9k to get used ones and be able to register the car, the seller did not agree to adjust the difference and the deal was off.

5)February 2015 360 Gated 2000 Black/Tan 18k miles 67k, the car went to a PPI and suddenly the seller increased the price 11k at mid PPI to 78k so the deal was off, another Fchat member purchased it that is why I will not put the VIN. I think I missed this car but I could not agree to pay more when we already agreed on a price.

6)February 2015 360 F1 1999 Black/Tan 20k miles 65k ZFFYR51A0X0117621, PPI scheduled, same thing the seller "did not remember" we agreed to 65k and he said the price was 68k, the deal was off, and I do not regret.

7)April 2015 MY CAR 360 Spider 2003 Red/Black with red inserts 22k miles, Ferrari of Seattle performed the PPI and everything was perfect, where did I find this car??? HERE!! from a fellow fchat member who was taking care of his car instead of trying to make a quick buck.

I paid way more for my car that I offered for all others, BUT it was in perfect shape and even though 360s have not gone up in value like the 550s I drive the car all the time and I do not care about value, I just care about DRIVING!!!

Morale of the story, be patient and (if you can) find a car HERE!!!

 

If you're ever in the Myrtle Beach area, look me up. We'll take my F1 out for a spin.

 

Be patient. But an $80K budget opens up a world of possibilities. Build cash or sell some long positions in your portfolio.

 

Good. Glad you are not going to be one that buys one to become a garage princess and you are going to drive it. As far as your original question, if it is between buying a Vette for $60K and spending an extra $10K-$15K for a Ferrari, it is a no brainer. If I were to sell my 2003 360 Modena F1 with 36K miles, I think I would get $70-$75K. New clutch, new leather dash, all rock chips taken care of, the car is completely sorted out as far as quality. (Sorry, I am not ready to sell yet). My point is, that there are good quality cars out there for just $10K more than the $60K you were looking to spend. You have the gift of time, use it. Half the fun is finding the right car!!

 

I believe he has the budget, honestly if somebody is squeezing the last dime because he does not have the budget that is a formula for disaster, because eventually something will break, I have realized that there is nothing like a cheap Ferrari, I remember somebody said something like "if you cannot afford an expensive Ferrari for sure you cannot afford a cheap Ferrari" or something like that.
I believe he just wants to get a great deal, I understand that and just like somebody said, finding the right car is part of the fun.