The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

ignore the man with Clichés...............

 

It is clear that you have not proven what the car is either way.

and have little knowledge of the car under Pipers care.

You don't even know anything about the chassis you claim it is. You have little knowledge of how it came to be, how it was modified or used under Piper. Yet you seem dead certain that it is 0003?

You don't even know how it is similar or different from the other Piper frames.

Is the Car P4 construction all around? Or just aft of the bulkhead?

 

Fair enough, we ignore the man with the axe to grind.

 

One question. If I can identify a car with as much as or less than 50% of the original frame as the original car, how many identical cars can I build from one frame? And how many more out of those again? And again?

 

DP 0003 was put up for auction by David Piper years before Jim bought it. and did not sell at that time.

The auction catalogue fully details what the car is - a replica built from period spare components. The pages and photos from then have been posted on this thread.

It is the same car that is now in Jims ownership, or are you claiming Vincent it is a substitute that Piper sold him.

How much more proof do you want that DP003 is the car Jim bought, and who was fully aware it was sold to him as DP003, a replica p3/4.

Axe to grind? I have no affiliation to either the seller of the buyer.

You clearly want this car to be 0846 and your blinkers are preventing you seeing anything else and simply ranting along, numerous people have made you aware of this so you dismiss them with more nonsense.

Keep it up, every time you post then more and more people join in the discussion who may have actually been on the fence and telling you what the car currently is, Piper 0003 not 0846. I was one of them a while back reading your drivel and decided to contribute as a result.

I imagine Jim is reading this and thinking "I wish that Vincent clown would give it a rest he is simply stirring the murk even more with his blatherings" and not helping the cause one iota.

 

Calling other forum users 'clowns' and 'muppets' isn't exactly helping yours either.

This isn't a playground and you (hopefully) are not a child. Some food for thought...

 

Ah Ginge,

I dont have a cause, just an inquiring mind, and I say it how it is, the guy is clearly not playing with a full deck, that is clear for all to see.

By the way

a) or b) or still avoiding the question?

 

...you also seem to have a very immature attitude when faced with an opinion that differs from your own.

You can disagree without the petty insults. Leave that for the playground.

 

Avoidance yet again, what exactly have you contributed to this thread?

Your opinion seems to be based on "yes its 0846 because..........ummm.....Jims says so"

If the moderators think I am out of line I am sure they will say so.

 

As a grown man you should cringe that you have resorted to petty insults with Vincent. You shouldn't need a moderator to tell you that's immature behavior.

You should know that already.

 

I will happily have an adult debate with Vincent when he takes off his blinkers and starts conversing and rationalising like one.

Remove his and your posts which have no valid content plus any then having to answer said drivel over and over again and this thread would shrink by quite a significant number of pages.

 

Odd, that's probably how quite a few feel about your own contributions. Especially those that appear to be posted by a rather petulant teenager.

Feel free to continue to embarrass yourself...

 

Another fact free post from you, who are these people? name names? would you like to reference any posts you have actually made that had practical thought provoking content on the matter at hand?

 

+1
VV (whoever he is hasn't even got the guts to use his real name) demands facts, facts, facts but hasn't added one fact to this debate despite all his posts. Take his posts out and this thread would be much better for their deletion.
He so wants Napolis car to be 0846, that he ignores the evidence.
Simple question - is Napolis car 0846? The photographic evidence proves it isn't. That's what this thread is about.
Nathan

 

I am not concerned with what Piper sold the car as. I am only concerned with what the frame actually is.

Can you say that it is "irrefutable fact" that this chassis is 0900? Built from scratch by Piper as 0900?

What is your A or B question?

 

You shouldn't be posting in this thread as the above post by you proves you know nothing about this chassis. 0900 is a different chassis.

 

To date none have been found or referred to specificly regarding 0846 It all goes back to the meeting between E.F. and David Piper.Supposedly everything to to with the P 3/4 project at the Scuderia was given to David Piper. Even if Piper opened up on the subject now, 54 years later. How much can he accurately remember.Who knows some documents may actually exist hidden away with Piper.In all the discussion the most frequently used opening statements are "If", "what if","Just suppose", "it is possible that","Why would someone do or say......? and it just goes on and on all of which contributes to the ambiguities and suppositions that clog the discussion.It's content is entertaining but for the time being is doing little to get to the real story.Only the future may led to some of what are the real details. tonga's crew

 

What "Facts" have you added?

What non biased contributions have you added?

You are as biased as can be and are on the same witch hunt that Miura is on. Rumor has it that you fueled the Miura witch hunt for quite some time. As a matter of "fact" you have been on this witch hunt longer than basically everyone.

I would prefer that a historic racing chassis survived, yes, but that doesn't make it so. What also doesn't make it so is the one sided biased argument that you and your cronies are trying to push.

What evidence have I ignored? I have read Miura's posts. He put together a good theory. But just like Jim's theory, Miura's has holes in it and it is open for discussion. I don't demand answers from anyone. That is Miura's ball of wax, demanding that Jim answer now, usually in caps and exclamation marks. I am merely asking questions I hope someone in the group can answer, which they can't. This amazes me as you and your "experts" can't answer any questions on the car they think it is, 0003. amazing how a bunch of "experts" have basically no knowledge of the car they are trying to say it is?????

The only thing the photographic evidence proves is that there are differences in the chassis from when the picture was taken versus today. Is this due to they are different chassis? maybe. Is it due to modifications were made to it since the picture was taken? Maybe?

For that photographic evidence to be valid at all one would need to know how Piper built the chassis, how close did he build to the P4 blueprints, how similar is this chassis to the other Piper series P4 vs. how the Ferraris were built, what modifications to the chassis did Piper make after the car was delivered and used through it's life? How about modifications when Jim had it?

But hey man, you are an "expert", you know the "facts" at least you pretend that you know you do? If this is so... why have you been unable to answer numerous questions about the chassis you pretend to know so much about?

Here's some more... is the chassis from the bulkhead forward of P4 or P3 construction? I have asked you this many times and you have not been able to provide an answer whatsoever or any fact as you call it.

The only thing childish here is you pretending to be an expert, who has no answers for valid questions.

This car is 0003 to you, only due to your extreme bias from the get go. If any one wants the car to be something so bad, it is you. You are dieing for it to be 0003 and everyone here knows it.

And by all means, what is your explanation for the chassis in Switzerland? Did it just spontaneously combust?

 

Cool story. I have continually referred to this chassis as possibly being 0003. Not only have I called it 0003 on numerous occasions but I have corrected Paul500 who calls it 003. So by your logic Paul500 should be banned also.

It is often referred to as part of the 0900 series, so nice try champ.

But continuing on that logic, you should be banned also, as you have proved time and time again that you know nothing of it's life as 0003. You literally know nothing about the chassis you claim it is. You don't even know the differences between this chassis and the other chassis Piper built.

Funny that you are trying to be an "expert" on 0003, yet you know basically nothing about the chassis as 0003.

Awesome.

 

No you can't as the forward side mounts won't line up and neither will the mounting points in the bulkhead. Your chassis does not have an original configuration of tubes supporting/surrounding the P3 rear side mounts as 0846 had when a P3 as I have explained previously.

 

Because calling posters 'muppets' and 'clowns' is adding a great level of insight into this specific car is it? The thread is so much richer for having your adolescent nonsense littered all over it?

People in glass houses and all that...

 

+1

Paul's whole purpose in this thread is to claim it's this, and that's that. It is irrefutable. No further questions are to be asked. For some reason Paul500 thinks he is both judge and jury, not sure when that happened? Or more so, how? What page did we decide Paul500 has the final call?

Then he'll throw out some insults that a 3 year old would be embarrassed delivering.

Great stuff.

 

Oh great Statler and Waldorf and in the same room at the same time, me thinks I will head off for a beer, no facts are going to be on this thread tonight now.........

 

Please entertain us with any "facts" that you have provided?

Do you know anything of this chassis during it's life as 0003? Excuse me, 003 as you call it. Is it a "fact" that this chassis is 003?

Please, since you know so many of these "facts", how did the accident damage happen while in Pipers possession? Surely being as knowledgeable as you are about the car, you must know about the car you claim it to be?

My guess is you know nothing of which you speak, but by all means... prove me wrong.

 

Roughly translated this means 'mum has told me that dinner is ready and I've spent far too much time on the internet today insulting people'.