Since 2007, three drivers have accounted for 69% of total race wins (110 out of 161). The other 19 drivers combined have only 51 total wins, and that includes two former WDC's. Objectively speaking, those are the best drivers of the last 10 years. Their achievements place them alongside historical greats and that's probably good enough. Even when they've had a superior car, it was because the team felt he was the right driver. Otherwise, why throw out million$$ to do something a 'race engineer could probably accomplish'? Arguing the GOAT is difficult and subjective and involves too many variables. I have my opinions, but it's not meant to dismiss the accomplishments of the current guys. They're driving the cars they were given in an era that's different from the past. Can't blame them for that.
You could also argue Rosberg is also better than Webber, as was evident when Rosberg finished 2nd in the last two title years for Hamilton, whereas Webber never finished above 3rd. However, I know the Mercedes is even more dominant than the Red Bull was. All the best, Andrew.
Yep, absolutely. With the driver input being only 30% in a win, and the car deciding for 70%, we may have to face the fact there won't anymore GREAT driver in future. We may start thinking about GREAT engineers instead ...
Beating your team mate doesn't make you a GREAT driver, even if it's in a dominant car. It's not what you win, but how you win it that makes a great driver.
So you say that Nico did not win because he was free of the pressure of an ongoing WDC fight but only because Lewis was not keeping on task? That raises a few questions to me: a) Both Schumacher and Vettel went on to win races after having the WDC in their pocket, because every "real" racing driver is greedy to win. I guess every driver with a chance to win a GP wants to win at all costs because winning a GP is what fuels them up, most of them are not even able to loose in ping pong against their children...Why not Hamilton? b) When standing on the podium and telling the world how thankful he is for the support of his fans and that they help him winning and that he wins for them blablabla...he is actually dishonest because as soon as he won the title he obviously does not care anymore that some of those fans spend a fortune and time to come to see him win? He does not care because he is rather unmotivated although some of his fans seem to take out a lot of their own self esteem out of the fact he is winning on Sunday? c) Everybody saw that winning three races in a row did help Nico with his elf confidence and gave him the right mentality to start with more race victories into the season. Despite playing mind games all over the season with Rosberg you actually think Lewis was to blind to see this coming when he backed up at the end of last season? So I do not understand why I was labeled hater over here by saying that I do not think that Lewis is head-and-shoulder above the other drivers when you paint a much darker picture of him than I ever did? You indicate that he is a) no real racer, b) ignorant and c) dump... Rosberg won 18 races vs. 28 in their time at Mercedes. How can you take down 18 victories as fluke and given by strategy and unfortune by Hamilton? You certainly have the right to think that Lewis is a much better driver but why do you Hamilton fans always have to go over the top like he would dominate every single other driver in every single race in every car? Button scored more points in their three years at McLaren (although he was joining team Hamilton), Alonso ended up more often in front of Lewis than behind when both cars finished so I do not see what makes Hamilton better than those two... Where did you get that from? Where did I say that Rosberg is a better driver??? I just say that there is not much difference in between those two and that most of that difference is based on mental strength (or weakness). It is YOU going over the top like Hamilton beats every guy in every race if the strategy and team lets him and that is simply not true...I said Mercedes will win because I think all Lewis has to do at the moment is beating Rosberg and he does not have to worry about the rest of the field. And only beating Rosberg does not make him one of the all time greats, no more, no less...
Not exactly the same question but I bet the outcome would be exactly the same as those not thinking that he is better than the rest obviously also think he is none of the GOAT.. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/f1/499600-lewis-hamilton-significantly-better-than-all-drivers-currently-grid.html Those saying no would be much more than those saying yes and those saying yes will point out that it is a Ferrari forum and that those saying no are haters anyway...So where is the sense in another poll?
He's always had the "It" factor, as Max does now, and will win another WDC... despite the fact his German team with it's German co-driver has tried like hell to change that. He stays the course while others around him falter. GOAT? 2 more and he'll be in the discussion but having the best car by a mile hurts his cause.
Don't we all remember the headlines in the news around the world after Toto and Niki realized they accidentally hired a Brit, on top one of the best... that was BIG. They thought they signed up a no one and all of a sudden they had Hamilton in their boat. What an unforeseen mess.
I'm going to disagree with this. Real competitors never stop racing. It's not possible for them to. My husband and I were only rank amateurs at everything we raced but it never, ever leaves your blood. We just found the one place in the entire US to install a supercharger on a Sequoia. We have a 30 year old scooter that is modified to do 60 mph. If going fast is in your blood, you don't ever stop feeling that. You'll race a wheelchair if you're the real deal.
I don't know about the greatest, but Tazio Nuvolari was one of the greatest ever. The fearless Mantuan was able to overcome terrific odds against and battle against the German works teams in inferior cars, defeating them more than once. Another great driver in my book was Berndt Rosemeyer, who with NO motor racing experience whatsoever qualified on the front row at his FIRST GP, led most of the race and finished 2nd, beaten by Caracciola. Rosemeyer won his 2nd GP, in fact the 2nd race in his career!! He was champion the following year. Rosemeyer was like a meteorite in motor racing, lasting just a couple of years before his death in a record attempt.
I agree here. As to clinched world titles, I don't think Hamilton backed off after the title was won in 2015 - rather, I think Rosberg simply performed better once the pressure of the championship was off. All the best, Andrew.
You eloquently put things into perspective, better than I could, and demonstrate that the claims about Hamilton are mostly blown out of proportion. He is a good driver, but not a great driver. I don't rely on stats only to make an opinion, but the figures show that Hamilton doesn't "own" Rosberg, doesn't "Wax" him and doesn't dominate. He is just in the dominant car and only has his team mate as rival at the moment. Rosberg is not the useless driver some Hamilton fans would like us to believe; he is among the best 4 or 5 on the grid, I would say - and the results prove it. As for Hamilton, he never dominated any team mate on equal machinery.
+1 Once a driver smells the opportunity of victory (or at the very least, gaining a place), they go for it. Always. Doesn't matter if it's 1st, 10th, or 19th. It's the spirit of competition and ''one upping'' the other that they all possess. A driver, especially one that has a chance (small chance) to break Schumachers record, is not going to throw away wins. They all know how hard that job is. Imagine falling 1 (or in this case, 3) short?
Right answer. Allow real world testing and development and then talk to me about how important drivers are. Right now they show up on weekends and drive what is given to them, nothing more. It was in that culture which spawned the last 2 greats, aryton and schumey.
IMHO a rather bizarre argument since the drivers dont make the rules. Also they do a good deal of testing: on practice day and in the simulators Furthermore based on the amount of driving alone the current drivers actually do a LOT more than e.g. the guys in the fifties who sometimes had less than a third of today's number of races. And who in his right mind would not count Fangio as one of the GOATs.
Maybe you should ask him. The ultimate goal of any F1 racer is to win the WC. Period. He did that - for himself and his fans. Not being 100% motivated after the WC has already been decided is not only something a driver can feel, but us fans as well. I know that I don't have nearly as much interest in a race if the WC has been locked up, although I still watch. Really? I indicated all of these things? Wow, nice way to put words into my mouth.
That tells me that you are not a real F1 fan. Even when the title has already been decided 3 GPs before the end, there is still interesting races to watch. A real F1 enthusiast likes to see them. For you, it's all about the numbers and the stats.
