The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Yes; my understanding also. But it is interesting to see that the first thing that lots of persons warn you about even before starting to talk is that "legally, that car doesn't exist anymore"

Rgds

 

Assuming [hopefully] that ALL parties to include JG and SPa come 'clean' and do so nicely on this build: what is it in definite terms? wiki wants to know

 

I think the term "legally" is miss-used here. We are simply talking about Ferraris records of nothing more than chassis numbers. They crossed #0846 out, that is all NOTHING more, ie. no deal with the devil was made, etc.

Of course they can amend their records and re-instate #0846. The physical chassis (if real proof can be made) is far more resilient than mere records.


I also think Ferrari Spa had far more important things to do with their funds than pursue Jim, especially now it has been floated. Can you imagine a board discussing this and whether they should allocate funds? I can't ... but I've been wrong before.
Pete

 

What happened to Napolis/JG? Is he no longer frequenting the forum?

 

Regarding getting the car titled as 0846. Honestly you guys... its not that difficult. The reality is... every single state does title and reg differently. In arizona... I would have no problem getting a title for a replica as a Ferrari and a serial number as 0846 as long as there wasn't one previously in the system. I could get it all done in a day. There is really nothing to it.

So... I have a question... how do we get the distributors standing up vs laying down? Is it in the cylinder head? So it would be an f1 block but not 330 heads? or is there a nasty adapter we can see?

 

The distributors are driven from the inside camshaft of each head. The end of the camshaft would have a gear on it to drive the distributor. In the case of a "straight thru" drive, the end of the distributor would just slide into the end of the camshaft.

The primary difference is in the bottom of the distributor housing and not the heads, although in looking at the pictures the cams don't look to be long enough to have a gear on them that would drive the standing up distributors, so the end of the cams could well be different, or the distributor could have the gears in the housing and drive them with what we would call a quill shaft if you wanted to have interchangeable cams.

Usually no difference in the heads, just the distributors themselves and maybe or maybe not the cams.

 

Heads apparently have 1967 Le Man's scrutineering stamps on them.
Pete

 

Im guessing he will rejoin when he has his paperwork stating that his car is 0846.

 

He says he already has that, and in dispositive documents no less.

 

I am not even close to holding my breath.

1) I have grave suspicions about whatever the "paperwork" turns out to be. The quality may again be highly suspect. IF there is something, very carefully look for authorship and the manner in which the physical inspection of the car was performed.

2) Unless he can be on terra firma while holding the silver bullet, I don't see him being in the position to scream "I told you so!".

 

Someone posted earlier that they held the original steering wheel from 0846. Could I purchase one of Piper's other "replica" cars, bolt that 0846 part on then register and title the car as 0846 here in FL? And assuming Ferrari doesn't have the time or inclination to dispute it, would that make my "replica" 0846 too? I could even post a Wikipedia page, register my ownership on a few registries, craftily word a PDF, etc. Or better yet... what if someone else comes along that has the original engine and gearbox? Would their parts trump all other replicas as the actual 0846?

 

Steven - For what it's worth, thank you for scrutinizing period photographs against the 0003 chassis. It's nice to see these details and better understand the differences between one car and the other. Very interesting stuff indeed.

 

You are welcome, Joe.

Perhaps Mr Glickenhaus himself can post some clear pictures of the details of the front of his chassis. After all, it is he who is the one that claims his chassis is 0846, so it is therefore he who should provide the clear evidence to substantiate and prove that claim. If he doesn't want to post the pictures himself, he could do it through spokesman Wax.

 

Agreed Pete, this is what I have said myself a few pages back; but, for the time being, and viewed from the factory, as far as we have the last news, #0846 has been crossed from the register (and of course, as I have said myself also, it doesn't mean that is has been physically destroyed...)
Rgds

 

Pete from what I recall that was debunked a long time ago, and that they were casting marks from manufacture thats all

 

My understanding is you would not even need said steering wheel. There could legally be a car called 0846 in most states, and in most countries.

 

That really sums up the difference in current approach between the two camps. What should matter most is what the PHYSICAL evidence shows. People and the papers they write are too easily influenced by bad memory, confusion, money, and politics. The metal itself and verified period photos are what speak the truth, if any truth is to be found.

 

I learned the first public appearance of a Piper built P4 was in 1979....
Which s/n 0900 or 0003?
Both cars would have been ready.

 

First two pictures are of P4 0846, which are the same picture, taken at Le Mans 1967. Third and fourth pictures, again the same picture, are of Glickenhaus DP0003. You can see that the outline/shape of the suspension pick up points is very different. Red line (sorry wonky) just shows where to look.
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First pic is of 0846 at Le Mans 1967. Second pic is of Glickenhaus DP0003.
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Obviously different. It also looks like the bolt on items such as the upper control arm are different.

 

Steve, Obviously different, but out of curiosity how does DP0003 compare to other P4's, ie. #0858. I say this because is the difference because #0846's front is P3 and DP0003 has been built as a P4.

If #0858 is the same as #0846 at Le Mans in 1967, AND DP0003 is the same as #0900, etc. then the chassis builder(s) that Piper used really only worried about where the suspension pick up points were and the chassis are facsimiles not proper copies.
Pete

 

They look pretty similar. The angle on the pictures is different, that could account for a difference in angles of the mounts.

Perry

 

https://www.facebook.com/P45Competizione/photos/a.142537405783521.14499.142273435809918/1191375090899742/?type=3&theater

"...found and purchased a huge supply..."
from who/where? Ferrari? Piper? either way, wow.

 

Not Piper.