The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Had to be Ferrari then, right? Probably offered when they were 'certifying' 0846.

 

Rather shiny for a 50 year old head, however well it was stored!

Be interesting to see what else was "discovered"

 

nice pic of 0854's rebuilt engine on a bench

https://www.facebook.com/P45Competizione/photos/a.142537405783521.14499.142273435809918/1191294647574453/?type=3&theater

 

I know this is a my opinion vs your opinion thing... but it can't be the angle. They are too different. you can see the size of the brackets and distance off of the frame is significant. Too significant to be hidden by an angled photo

 

Nope. Totally different.


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Doesn't have to be Ferrari, either. Italy is an interesting country. People keep stuff lying around...

 

Glickenhaus DP0003 to compare with Ferrari 0846 at Le Mans 1967.
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You can see from 0858's mount, even from a blurred pic, that it has the same distinct shape as 0846.
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Ferrari? I don't think so. No one has yet come up with evidence of the car actually being at Ferrari for anything, let alone a certification process.

 

Buying all the spares in the world for chassis DP0003, even if the spares are genuine Ferrari, are not going to turn it into the genuine 0846.

 

Yup. Fails the continuity test no matter what the frame is. Even more so when the frame, as Steve has demonstrated (want to say proven), is not the real deal. A great bitsa but not in the same league as what Mr. Stroll has; no stories, no questions, complete provenance with continuity.

 

The entire point of Classiche is to offer Ferrari owners a method of assessing the originality of their cars. That is how Ferrari Spa certified cars such as #5899, 6045 and #0818, believe it, love it or hate it, that is Ferrari's right to say what they want about the brand and its cars. Further it is a great earner for Ferrari Spa and why would they then do or say anything about #0846/DP0003 without Jim needing to go through the Classiche certification process? They arguably created the three prior named cars out of a similar amount of original material at enormous cost, millions of euro's, so entirely reasonable to expect they will do the same with this car, or not.

 

You are coming closer to anyone as to what has really happened here. Namely, one man's obsession with owing the three major Le mans race cars of the '60s.

 

Here are some links to some photos of #0854's front suspension showing chassis pick up points. Same as #0858.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/140949006-post989.html
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/140895674-post988.html
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/139407171-post678.html
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/139522780-post734.html
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/141090712-post1013.html

And #0850 (unrestored then), also same as #0858:
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/139642571-post761.html

Pete

 

Ok, but I think the angle of the photo makes the brackets look like they angle out from the frame on one, and they look flat on the other. Just curious.

Perry

 

Perry
That's just the point. On the two chassis they are different, hence (along with the other photos that have been presented) we can say that 0846 and DP003 are not the same chassis.
Nathan

 

0846 at Le Mans 67 was very different at the very front of the chassis to DP0003. Pic is from Karl Ludvigsen Collection. Photographer Edward Eves.
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Maybe but #0846 and #0854 were hardly major players at the 24hr Le Mans ... neither finished a 24hr race there.
Pete

 

Perry I do actually agree with you . At first yes I thought they angled out differently but with Steve's post #9081 you can see that if there is a difference in the angle it is minor.

The difference is the front suspension rear (closer to the bulkhead) pick up point. On DP0003 it is just a flat piece of steel and the shape of the plate is different. Also on #0846 and other genuine P4's there is another hole in the flat piece of steel (?, not sure if it is in the plate or below the plate) below where the wishbone attaches. This hole appears to be where a tube (possible to stiffen the plates?) has been welded.
Pete

 

Correct. Interesting that they did use square tubing on the side of the front "thing" for #0846 but yes miles different, and #0846 was very different to #0854 too ... ? ... they were race cars and things evolve I guess.
Pete

 

All pics are of Glickenhaus DP0003.
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What's that nipple type thing on DP0003???
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I believe it's a lubrication fitting. Not on 0846, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't have been an upgrade of some sort.

Still, with the detail photos of the front of chassis 0846 and DP0003 side by side, I cannot believe anyone still thinks Jim's car is 0846. Many of the details aren't even close. It's clear the rear end of this chassis isn't 0846, nor is the front. And we know the engine and gearbox aren't from 0846 either... so what's left?!

 

With all the historic racing nowadays it is easy to forget that there really wasn't any such thing back then, so where would you have raced these cars?

In the late 70's and early 80's these cars would have been destroyed by then modern race cars so many sat around doing nothing and we have to thank the true enthusiasts for saving them from the scrap heap!

I must say with #0846's case one can sort of see why Enzo used to crush old race cars ...
Pete

 

+2

I agree, These last 2 pages of pictures really make it simple to compare and see....