That's impressive you've done 50,000 miles let alone on the stock clutch. Wear seems reasonable on my F1... About 1% per 1,000 miles, but only a 3,000 mile sample size.
Well, I meant in general, not in a Ferrari. I put over 20,000 miles on my Maranello and the clutch was as strong as when I got it. It's been a while since I asked, but it seems most folks get 15k to 20k on a F1. But, I dunno. I'm still seeing F360s with less than 5,000 miles so I guess it is a moot point for them.
Projected clutch life on my F1 575M is about 62,000 miles based on the last check. The V12 clutches are tougher than the 360 clutches and about the same toughness as an F430 twin disc clutch. If you drive F1 exactly like you do three pedals, clutch life is pretty good.
Interesting. I only drove a 575M once and didn't see much point in the F1 because the car has so much torque. When you say you drove the F1 like a stick, are you short shifting or breathing momentarily before you shift? Just curious. One of the big myths on Ferrari Chat about 12-14 years ago was driving a F1 in auto caused more wear than using the paddles. Frankly, this claim didn't make sense to me then or now. The physics are the same, right? My only experience with a F1 was in a Stradale and a '04 Maser Spyder. I drove the Stradale in full on F1 style (pin it and pull) for a year and then sold it, so that's not much of a data point. But, the Maser seemed to be fine in the auto mode. I would lift momentarily at the shift point in auto and the car shifted fine. Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Driving in Auto will give the same wear as manual, if, and this is a big if, you drive it like the auto system does. This means going through every gear downshifting whenever you come to a stop. I am a coast in neutral guy when coming to a stop, which cuts down on a lot of clutch and T/O bearing cycles. In Normal in a 360 or 575M, or Sport in an F430, there is no rev matching on upshifts or downshifts. In Sport (Race for F430) the system does match revs and even double clutches on downshifts. Lifting on upshifts in normal makes for smoother upshifts since I do not use Sport until oil temperature reaches 160 F. In Sport/Race, the system lifts the throttle for you on upshifts, so not much issue there. Many owners do not understand even the basics on how F1 actually works and how to drive one so you maximize clutch life without compromising fun. Drive F1 like an automatic and you will be unhappy, drive it like a three pedal and you will enjoy it.
Hardware changes; the engine ECUs, engine wiring loom, F1 wiring loom, and clutch hydraulic distribution block are different. I put together http://www.mwstewart.co.uk/misc/f430/F430%20assembly%20changes.xlsx during my research. It quickly became evident that the MY08 cars were never correctly represented in both parts and service systems. I knew Ferrari documentation can be a little sparse and erroneous, so I resounded to looking deeper. The MY08 changes are the important ones for me: the cars at that point incorporate the most challenge changes and the Scuderia electronics package. Since putting together the Excel sheet I had the chance to discuss it with an experienced Ferrari tech over here (Ed Blasi) who told me the system is the 'Florence Architecture' - basically the first of the new era electronics. Having said the above I wouldn't loose too much sleep over not having an 08; it was important for me because I'm converting my car to a 16M so I knew it would make my life easier, but really aside from the F1 update we're not talking huge differences - not ones you'll feel from the drivers seat anyway.
I just spent a few minutes searching but didn't turn up anything new. Off the top of your head do you know what the other changes are?
This is super. Thank you. I have most of these in my notes but not all. The ones I don't have are very interesting, though, and possibly important, like the crankcase change and some other things. I new there were transmission changes but I didn't know how extensive or when exactly they occurred. Personally speaking, I'm not losing any sleep over not having an 08. I have a very late 2007 and I specifically wanted a mid-06 or preferably an 07 but not an 08 onward as I didn't want the standard (for the US) TPMS system. I am very happy with it and wouldn't move to a later car for my needs. For what you're doing, it's clearly evident that you needed an 08 or 09 or you would be making a lot more work for yourself. Thank you for putting this together. This is really great. Thank you.
Courtesy of: Terry H Philips (Tazandjan) New engine crankcases at Engine Numbers (EN from now on) 89099, 116247, Assembly Number (AN from now on) 72472. New heads, valve seats AN 71274, EN 99608. New camshafts EN 97781. New ignition coils (8 replacing 4L/4R) AN 67971. New injector assembly AN 71274, EN 99608. New injector cables AN 69639, 67971. New Motronic ECUs AN 57596, 69678, 73460. New fuel pump support cover AN 67395. New intake manifolds, covers, gaskets AN 71274, EN 99608. New exhaust manifolds and catalytic converters serial number (SN) 157672, AN 74457. New exhaust pipe AN 64274. New air/oil separator AN 65161. New water and oil pump AN 58098. New F1 hardware and F1 pump at ANs 61589, 69347. New E-Diff pack AN 61702. F1 and 3 pedal clutch hoses, connectors, shields, gaskets, sensors SN 157672, AN 74557. New 3 pedal clutch throw-out bearing AN 75200. New 3 pedal gearbox control cables AN 58225. New Digitek F1 interior F1 control panel and upholstery replacing Jaeger control panel SN 149225, AN 66454. New ABS/ASR ECU AN 61537. New F&R, steel and CCM brake calipers AN 68251. New CCM rotors AN 64741. New airbag steering wheel assembly AN 60178. New starter motor bracket EN 97707. New front compartment trim AN 74672. New sun visors AN 67866. New hood/bonnet AN 74571, hinges AN 74454, gas struts AN 74558. New fuel lid actuator and back-up cable AN 65254. New door frames and locks AN 74920. New outside rearview mirror AN 74274. Wiring harness changes ANs 61555, 68691, 69639, 71979. Window ECU AN 70937. F1 ECU/TCU changes non-USA, Gearbox Numbers 3270, 3629, 3781, SN 157672, AN 74557. Acceleration sensors SN 157672, AN 74557. Stereo/GPS SN 146597. I also believe new (stronger) MkII exhaust manifolds were fitted Fromm 2008 onwards
Taz...so all fluids every three years best? Excluding the engine oil of course which I know has to be done yearly.
And your sheet is in order. FYI, the FNA bulletins and parts changes outline almost all of those (but not all). As I said, I think the changes to 360 (especially for the 2002 on) are much more significant.
Thanks. I agree on neutral for stops, F1 or stick. (The only exception is if I don't trust the drivers around me and perceive I might need to move in a hurry.) Brakes are cheaper than clutches. Another lesson I learned about F1s is they slip constantly in reverse. Best bet is to build a circular driveway through your garage. Lacking that, make sure the driveway is clear, pop reverse, goose it, pop neutral and coast backwards.
I thought that the F430's didn't have issues with reverse like the 360's did? My F430 gets delivered this week and this is my driveway. I guess I need to back in eh. Crud. Image Unavailable, Please Login
It's the same from what I gather. Reversing uphill remains the worst thing you can do for clutch life.
Really? That's a well known weak point of the F1. They slip the clutch. In reverse. Uphill in reverse is just about the worst you can do from a wear perspective. I would normally reverse mine into the garage but because my short driveway (8 feet) has a slight incline I just park it nose first. When it's time to come out, i use only a little throttle and let it roll out of re garage with the help of the incline.
Well, it's something I read on here. Someone said that the problem didn't go away, it just got better. You know how that goes. My problem is that my house is at the bottom of the hill. I think my only option is to back in?
That's a great looking 355. It would be cheaper than a clutch change to add a 3 point turn pad at the bottom of the driveway if space permits. Back out of the garage and turn the car around and drive up the hill in 1st gear.
Mark- Yup, the constantly slipping clutch in reverse is another old wives' tale, easily disproven by going to a large, empty parking lot, preferably downhill, and reversing. The clutch locks up just like any other gear. The 360 and 575M have reverse gear ratios (2.562 vs 3.286 in 1st, 360, and 2.384 vs 3.153 in 1st, 575) that are way too high and require excessive initial clutch slip to get moving. This was mostly fixed in the F430 (2.73 R) and pretty much completely fixed on the 599 (2.93 R). The 360 and 575M reverse ratios are almost as high as 2nd gear. I guess the Italians thought they wanted to go much faster in reverse than in 1st.
