Bad day at the track -Variator failure - pictures | FerrariChat
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Bad day at the track -Variator failure - pictures

Discussion in '360/430' started by rmarchjr, Aug 25, 2016.

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  1. rmarchjr

    rmarchjr Formula Junior

    May 21, 2012
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    #1 rmarchjr, Aug 25, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  2. BladeMD

    BladeMD Formula 3
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    #2 BladeMD, Aug 25, 2016
    Oh man :( :( :(

    Do you have a chance at rebuild or is a whole new engine required?
     
  3. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    #3 2NA, Aug 25, 2016
    Missed the variator campaign?
     
  4. natman316

    natman316 Formula Junior

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    #4 natman316, Aug 25, 2016
    Ouch on the scud?


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  5. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #5 PAP 348, Aug 25, 2016
    Would be on the 360 race car I am sure.
     
  6. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #6 PAP 348, Aug 25, 2016
    My initial thoughts also. But I wonder if the variator was replaced, is there still a chance of them failing?

    Have you ever heard of a variator failure after the update Tim?
     
  7. MalcQV

    MalcQV F1 Rookie

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    #7 MalcQV, Aug 26, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Not good :-/

    Had this on an Alfa just this year. Only a four-pot. Variator came away from the camshaft. It had been replaced 600 miles/ 8 months previously. The Alfa specialist said he had never seen or heard of it before.
    Is this a known problem with 360's?
    In my case it was easier and cheaper to replace the engine.


    No1 piston. You can see the little end through the hole.
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  8. mike01606

    mike01606 Formula Junior

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    #8 mike01606, Aug 26, 2016

    Yes Malc....I think it might have been you who told me that Alfa specialists use the 360 one as an upgrade!

    There was a campaign in the early 2000's to replace them with an upgraded part after failure on 360 CH cars.
    The update to the part was minor and they changed the installation procedure to try to reduce stress on the threads (they crack where the screw into the cam).

    This is one of the 360 motor Achilles heels but only the pros can really comment as to how common it is for post campaign parts.
    I'm not sure how many people would shout about it on forums if they have a failure. I've seen one on here in four years. So well done to the OP and good luck with the fix....




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  9. MalcQV

    MalcQV F1 Rookie

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    #9 MalcQV, Aug 26, 2016
    Mike, it wasn't me, until this happened I'd never heard of it at all. It is to my knowledge relatively unheard of in Alfa circles.
    I guess Mandy at Maranellos can check with VIN if the recall was done on a car.
     
  10. redduke

    redduke Karting

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    #10 redduke, Aug 26, 2016
    6000+ rpm after 2 minutes warm up? I suspect that engine's led a tortured life.
     
  11. Julian Thompson

    Julian Thompson Formula Junior
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    #11 Julian Thompson, Aug 26, 2016
    Sorry to hear about this. Very frustrating to have a proper no fault failure like that. Best wishes with the repair work.
     
  12. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    #12 2NA, Aug 26, 2016
    Not unheard of but much more likely with the old variator design. The upgrade parts have a larger radius machined at the point where they tend to break. Typically replaced with the 5-8 tensioner that also frequently breaks due to vibration. This is all well documented in numerous other threads.

    Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
     
  13. rmarchjr

    rmarchjr Formula Junior

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    #13 rmarchjr, Aug 26, 2016
    You would be incorrect. Very well maintained car, oil changes after every event (200 miles) the car was always warmed properly - no revs over 4000 until oil is above 160deg F. Belts and bearings changed every year, oil sent out for lab analysis every month. No cats, open exhaust, aftermarket headers.

    The variator failed on track @ 6k+ rpms, motor was still running after the failure, and shut down as soon as I could get off the line. We restarted in the pits for 10 seconds or so to diagnose the issue. I thought it was interesting that the metal had migrated to a cylinder on the opposite side of the engine in such a short period of time. (2min was the MAX time the engine ran after it happened and was more likely less then a minute.)

    The only salvageable part on this head will be the casting. Valves, springs, retainers, guides and seats are all junk. Pistons definitely need replace, and connecting rods will need inspection, haven't done any inspection of the bottom end so not sure what state the liners are in. Good thing I like to fix engines!
     
  14. rmarchjr

    rmarchjr Formula Junior

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    #14 rmarchjr, Aug 26, 2016
    Sorry - yes this a 360 Challenge car, the motor was from a MY2000 360 street car which appeared to have had the variators replaced once already but maybe not.
     
  15. LorenzoR

    LorenzoR F1 Rookie
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    #15 LorenzoR, Aug 26, 2016
    Is there anyway that you can verify if this variator is the updated one or not. If its the updated variator that failed here it would be good to know,,Thanks
     
  16. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #16 PAP 348, Aug 26, 2016
    Cheers for the reply mate. I haven't looked into this issue for a very long time now. :)

    When the update was done by Ferrari, they would stamp VD on the front corner of the RH cylinder head from memory.

    Would definitely be good to know if this was an updated variator that failed here.
     
  17. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    #17 2NA, Aug 26, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The upgrade units are typically marked with a green dot. There are date code numbers as well.

    Not every upgraded car got the "VD" marking.
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  18. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #18 PAP 348, Aug 26, 2016
    Did they stamp the corner of the head too Tim?

    Am I correct in saying that?

    I am sure I read it somewhere here on the forum many years ago.
     
  19. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    #19 2NA, Aug 26, 2016
    Supposed to do it. ;)
     
  20. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #20 PAP 348, Aug 26, 2016
    Lol, oh. Dear me. :eek:

    I am just having a look, I am 100% sure I have a pic somewhere on my computer showing the VD stamp on the cylinder head.

    If I find it I will post it up. :)
     
  21. speedy_sam

    speedy_sam F1 Veteran

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    #21 speedy_sam, Aug 26, 2016
    Soon to be PAP 360?
     
  22. rmarchjr

    rmarchjr Formula Junior

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    #22 rmarchjr, Aug 26, 2016
    What is a PAP360?
     
  23. rustybits

    rustybits F1 Rookie
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    #23 rustybits, Aug 26, 2016
    Not many dealers bothered with the "vd" stamp. It's in a tricky place and those guys are on time-bonus! ;) as mentioned by Tim, look for the green paint dot on the variator. Usually the r/h bank that fails. Installation torque is also essential to longevity so I suspect the few failures of the revised variator may well be due to installation error...
     
  24. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #24 Kevin Rev'n, Aug 26, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  25. cgfen

    cgfen Formula Junior

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    #25 cgfen, Aug 26, 2016
    Sorry to see that this occurred.
    The valves made a significant impression on the piston dome.

    Silly me, I thought that the 360 had 3X exhaust valves, not 3X intake valves.

    The piston dome shape is interesting.

    Cheers and good luck.
     
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