'64 250 GTO damaged at Goodwood Revival 2016

I think it was 2005 when I saw one of the Walton ladies put her GTO into the wall at T11 at Mt. Tremblant. (If you drop a wheel at T11, it can grab and spin you clockwise right into the wall.) Everybody considered it poor form to take pictures of the car on the flatbed. She was fine. I talked to her briefly, and she said her wrists hurt. My only suggestion was to let go of the wheel before you hit something solid. I don't know for a fact, but I'm 100% positive her car has been repaired to tip top shape. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that this wasn't the first time this car had engaged in extracurricular activities. And, no, I don't know the damn number of her car.

 

Cox' 3445GT was in a head-on in EUR several years ago (50th GTO reunion). IIRC (and I may not), wife was driving. Or, maybe, wife was injured (broken ankle?). Anyway, completely repaired.

CW

 

At members meeting this spring the GT40 class was essentially a class of replicas....1029 was the only real car I saw there....and there were almost 30 cars.

I'm not knowledgable on 917's but there were a few and they were only driven in parade laps.
I'd suggest these were all real.

Many museums have replicas made of many of their antiquities and display these...keeping the real items in the "vaults".

It would be nice to know which of the cars we see racing are the real deal vs replicas.

 

If you are in a position to race your true original than that's great. You should enjoy your life while you can. Although I don't really understand having someone else do the driving. Would seem like having someone else sleep with your wife/GF!

 

What is the definition of racing? 7/10ths?

These guys race. Period. Everyone out the chicane were sideways, in the USA they would say you are out of control.

At Goodwood everyone is very much in control, and they race. So when you race you have fender benders, so you repair.

All the cars there have a history of such incidents. What is the problem?

If you don't like racing and all the inconveniences thereof, then don't.

Regards, Alberto

 

That, happens also...

Regards, Alberto

 

If your going to let BTCC drivers loose in your car you know what to expect.

 

Once these old timers pass, will anyone really care about originality of some old clunkers from the 60's? The answer is no. The generation that was young in the 60's are the people who are bidding these cars up now.

Let them enjoy the cars as they were meant to be enjoyed.

 

Agreed.

The Americans are bitter on this thread because of the 'monetary value' attached to the cars. Everything ends at the socioeconomic plane in America. If its expensive it must be revered and worshiped regardless of intended use.

The remaining are bitter over 'safety', the classic concern of a overprotected and overmedicated middle class.

Racing is racing.

 

That's an interesting point about Americans attitude towards the 'value' of cars. I was quite shocked at some of the comments in a recent thread on here where a woman in an old Mercedes backed into a modern production Ferrari. You'd of thought she'd reversed over a baby in a pushchair.

 

The Jaguar took advantage of racing dynamics and used the Cobra as 'guardrail'.

It was a clever, albeit elbowing in, as the cobra opened way out, the jag went it,

and the loser was the Cobra. The Cobra went too wide and left the door open.

That is real racing, not tiddlywinks as In Laguna Seca.

Rough, but brilliant driving, and yes there were dents, so you repair them.

It cost as much to make a new Yugo fender as to make a new GTO fender, OK, a bit more, but so what.

"Mors tua, vita mea"

Regards, Alberto

 

I could care less about value. The value of rare classic Ferrari's is so crazy it makes no sense. That is mainly due to the older generation who watched them in the 1960's pushing prices up to the galaxy. And you are right, when they are gone prices will drop. What I care about is keeping the original cars original. If it has a rebody or was wrecked badly before it does not matter as much. But the more original cars should be taken better care of, and not just in Europe.


If someone took a rare painting and abused it because he owned it and made him feel good the collector world would have a baby. Abusing race cars is in a way the same thing.


This kind of racing can and does result in destroyed cars, not just dents.

 

I'm not sure I fully agree with your comment. Sure, risking money value is something (a total write-off), but it's really about risking damage to the "originality" that would seem to be the issue. The loss of "originality" may de-value the asset, BUT the argument is that the car can only be "original" once. And, once that's taken away, it's not the same.

Now, as a racer, I think that's a silly point of view to take. Many/most of these cars have all suffered damage at some point in their lives. Does the fact that a repair was made in the 60's mean the originality is lost? Or, the 80's? Or, the 00's? If the originality was lost in-period, then the so-called cherry was popped long ago.

Anyway, people also loathe throwing away money indiscriminately. And, if that crunched fender knocks the value down 5, 10 or 15%, it can be big dollars (or Euros) when you're talking about Ferraris. So, it's not that we're talking pennies, here. We might be talking hundreds of thousands of dollars (or Euros). And, for many, that's a big deal. For the guys actually tossing these things around a track, it's probably not a game-changer, but let's be honest, too: it's always easier to sell a car without a story, than it is to sell one with a story. Unscrupulous sellers and the advent of Carfax has emphasized the issue of prior damage. Maybe that's irrelevant for vintage Ferraris, but it shows how the thinking has changed. And, when SpA's Classiche rolls in and becomes the arbiter of what's "original" and what isn't (after decades of showing ZERO interest in the old iron, I might add), getting that Red Book stamp of approval goes a long with with some buyers and is given a premium.

Anyway, I certainly want to see these cars out and being exercised. Often, at HSR events, I had the only Ferrari. Having run in the Challenge and Historic Challenge, that was quite an adjustment. It would be nice to have more company...

CW

 

To play devil's advocate: for what? To pass in a meaningless vintage/historic race? It was unnecessary and totally avoidable. All it did was damage two cars.

CW

 

Go and tell the Earl of March that the venue is a meaningless vintage/historic race.
Then you might try the various competitors

Regards, Alberto

 

Fun, enjoyment and respect of one's fellow driver peers may be a worthwhile pursuit in itself, IMO, but is bashing up old iron the way to go about it?

CW

 

75% of the aluminum skin of our car is original; you can feel Scaglietti's hammer marks on the undersides of the panels. Our idea of "respecting the car's heritage" is to track the car at about 8/10s and never in a race setting where others are not likely to respect our car's history or originality. These panels are not fungible to us - they are original once. Does a car like ours change your analysis at all? Your presumption is that the cars that are vintage racing have been repaired so many times that they are essentially replicas and I think you should know that that is not always the case.

 

Bryan,

You need a replica/copy to go racing in and mix it up!

CW

 

Respect!
A new owner may decide to race at Goodwood, LM classic etc under his ownership.
We need to respect whatever an owner wants to do with his car; show/concours/race/garage queen
I do not mind if they trash a GTO or E-type.

 

I know that Jan Biekens made a new skin for 0536MD for racing purposes; the existing skin was preserved.

 

Very funny as Christian Horner was co driving the GTO !

I suggest you look him up

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Horner
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...and 8/10s is quite fast!

Ciao!
Walter

 

The positive point is that this car will be restored with a correct nose now. Maybe...