A guy in the 355 section recently converted too as a couple of shops could not seem to fix his car (don't even get me started on that baloney). Not a fan but if an owner wants to do so, it's his car and his money.
For a while the strauman conversion to drop tips was big and expensive. Owners got their money back out upon sale. Even today a strauman conversion, considered one of the better ones, commands value where you and I would see a bastardized Ferrari. It is possible that these models which had very few 3 pedal units may command more than a clean F1 car but not as much as a factory 3 pedal. All the OEM conversion parts might be available for some models but in my mind it is like making a 3 pedal car out of a automatic BMW. It is just not as good as buying just a 3 pedal BMW. The other issue is that the automatic is not going away. The 3 pedal is simple and almost never breaks down. Where will the F1 or DCT gearbox have evolved to in 25 years? Will there be parts or people who know how to fix it? That will effect value too.
I agree but I also think that manual v12 2 seater Ferraris are going to get very expensive in the next ten years, for the reasons I posted in my previous post in this thread, so it may become cheaper to do this conversion if you really want a manual. Yes there are a lot of manual cars out there but how many are front engined v12 Ferraris. Daytona's are getting crazy, 550/575's will follow, etc. IMO, if you have the cash, a good time to buy a nice 550 manual and store it away as an investment. Are they not relatively cheap at the moment? Pete
As long as the parts are kept to convert back, I see no issue and would see it as a potential value add (but not to the tune of $60k). I'd love to see a 599gto or SA Aperta with this done, that'd be the ultimate in high performance ferrari mt cars and at the eye watering price those cars go for, $60k isn't much.
Those cars were not designed to have MT. So, I think that would be unwise. You now have a Frankenstein car. (Although, there are persistent rumors of one factory 599 GTO MT, with no credible evidence). I also feel that way about the 360 CS and F430 Scuderia. Neither was ever setup for MT. IMO, conversion should be limited to F355, 360, F430, 575, 1st gen 612, and 599 GTB.
I recall trygve11 saying he thought he could do a manual conversion on a 612 fairly easily. I'd start with him...
Bas- There were over 4700 three pedal 360s, so the task is a bit easier, but could be considered a waste of time with all the OEM 3 pedals out there. That 360 was reconverted to F1.
Taz, The F1 transmission will be more reliable than the manual. Reason being is that the car does a better job of the shifting than a human can. I.E., the rev matching ensures better shifting and less synchro and coupler wear. So, your point about the trannys being internally identical is correct, but the F1 application will outlast (and outperform) the manual (all other things being equal like driver, tracking, etc, etc.). Case in point: I just tore apart a 30k mile 612 manual tranny that had significant crunching and worn sychromesh. All due to "over aggressive" shifting by the driver. This abuse would have been greatly mitigated in an F1 application as the F1 just plain won't allow you to abuse the tranny to the same extent that a manual can be abused.
Jason- Undoubtedly true. The 360s tend to have a lot of problems with the 3rd gear synchro on manual shift versions, but that problem does not show up on F1 versions. Most F1 issues are due to lack of maintenance on the F1 system. Should be serviced, F1 fluid changed, system bled, and PIS optimized every three years according to Ferrari's recommendations for the last F1, the 599. If well maintained, F1 is pretty much bullet proof and very easy on the transaxle with 800-900 psi of hydraulic pressure providing for faultless shifts. Most three pedal wear is due to hamfistedness combined with hamfootness. Incidentally, someone is trying to pass off a converted 575M as the real thing on e-bay right now. See this thread: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/456-550-575-sponsored-bradan/532366-575-gated.html#post144918387
The 599 manual conversion issue is similar to the old Daytona spider conversion issue: If you REALLY want a 599 manual or Daytona spider and cannot afford the real thing, build your own. Expect to throw away that money to get what you want, as your car will be worth the same or less than what you started with. Ferrari (and historians) know the serial numbers of the real 599 manuals & Daytona spiders and it would be financial/legal suicide to misrepresent a conversion in a sale. 599 manual & Daytona spider conversions are sacrilegious.
I understand what your saying, but I don't believe this is fair comparison. They are not similar conversions. You can acquire the genuine Ferrari parts to convert to MT, and both the factory built MT and the converted MT are literally indistinguishable. They are virtually the same, except for what is on the build sheet. The process is generally straight-forward, with virtually no complications. On the 360, the conversion is very easy, with parts list 5K or less. For other models, costs are higher. The Spider conversion was very labor-intensive effort that could never be exactly like the factory. There were many fabricated parts that were hard to acquire and the difference between the spyder and coupe versions were substantial. Such is not the case with MT vs F1. Here is more on the Daytona Conversions: https://www.ferraris-online.com/pages/article.php?reqart=SCM_200504_SS
With a conversion to 3 pedals, the conversion can always be reversed if need be and the parts are saved. Same cannot be said for an easy reconversion for a Daytona Spider, although at one point Strahan was saving all those chopped off tops. One of the two known 575M three pedal conversions was done just because the owner wanted a manual 575M and could no longer afford an OEM one. For $31K, he got his wish and they kept all the F1 parts.
It's an old folks thing it will die out when younger people start to desire these cars. Driving a MT 599 is far from a rewarding experience because the clutch and flywheel design was optimised for F1. A close friend who has driven one said it was almost un-drivable
I've also heard the MT variant of the 599 was not an ideal fit. However, that is not the case with the F430 and especially the 612; the 612's engine is from same family of engines used in 550, 575, and 456. I do not agree all young folk have no interest in MT. MT is still a popular option in many areas of the world.
MT does not belong in a car manufactured after 2010, the introduction of dual clutches. Cars and engines have been designed and engineered with dual clutches in mind.
And will become more popular with the few genuine car geeks of the future, the ones that really want to get involved with their car, or maybe feel what it was like in the old days. And it all comes down to the mighty $. In 20 years time a Daytona will be way out of most peoples reach, even relatively rich people and the 550/575's will be very damn expensive (equivalent of a Daytona now). So if you want a manual v12 Ferrari you will have to make one ... or save very, very hard. Pete
Agree. I'm young and my desire for manual cars grows stronger as the new offerings become more automated. That sentiment is unanimous amongst my similarly aged friends. -Joe
Sad to hear I won't be going to my doctor to ask for leeches in my treatment anytime soon. Despite the anecdotes polling amongst potential Ferrari purchasers is clear they want the cars to represent the very pinnacle of technology and performance. As I said there is a temporary nostalgia and here in Europe it is in part fuelled by an ageing auto journalist class who all hate power steering, auto boxes etc. They won't last and a manual will always be a curiosity but little more. As an ex-racer I can tell you my 599 and 430 would neither make any sense as a manual as both were developed as F1 cars. In Europe I grew up with stuck and run stick cars in our fleet I won't miss any of them when we eventually switch over to paddles.
Glad you have the cars that suit you. Why the buzz kill on a younger member that's interested in becoming a skilled driver with a sense of history? Maybe he would like to experience what you experienced on your way to becoming an ex-racer....
