true or fake about 3X8 series: legends are just legends

Re: 6 I drive a 84 QV and had cooling issues until I fitted a coolant catch can (saw the tip on Fchat) no more problems with having to bleed air out of cooling system and it stays cool in traffic.

 

Thanks Alberto

 

Do you think an oil with low viscosity @ low temps would have cured it? I'd be thinking about an oil change just for the winter if I was regularly running in those kind of conditions.

It's hypothetical for me as here on our Atlantic island, weather below freezing always means salty roads so I never go out with the 308.

 

Can you post a link to that thread, please?

 

In 13 years of 308 ownership I have never heard this ... and to think how many times I have ground the gears going into reverse when hot. Oh well, you are never too old to learn.

 

Don't know, but I use 5W40 because it is the one recommended by the factory, and for its high viscosity when starting in cold winter, which can be useful considering where the car are. North-East of France is certainly not Siberia (or Minnesota, North Dakota, etc...), but temperatures below the freezing point during winter are common, and I need the psychological support of knowing that the engine has an oil that is flowing very well when cold, at engine start, when nothing is oiled before the key is turned. (Although I must say that I have never read about a Ferrari engine destroyed because the oïl was not the right grade...But this belong to any "oïl thread" I guess (these are numerous...)

Rgds

 

Well, 5 is nearly as thin as you can go for winter (low viscosity therefore maximum cold flow) so I guess there's no room for improvement there. End of oil thread digression

 

Mike ("Mike 996") is an afficionado of 0W30 (Mobil) for his '89 328...so thinner is actually possible! Yes you can...
Rgds

 

And actually you don't even have to go all the way into a gear, you really only need to press against the synchro momentarily to stop the shafts and then into reverse.

 

My ex-GT4 shifted into second when cold without hardly any resistance when cold. When I got the QV it wouldn't go into second at all when cold. The only modification I made to the gear box when I had it out was to drill the very small hole as specified. It made second shift just like the rest when cold. I wonder if my GT4 had that done before I got it but I never looked.

I recommend against the hole. Not being able to use second when cold is an important part of the Ferrari mystique. I almost miss it.

Almost.

 

This must be a different issue to the one being discussed though, not shifting into 2nd when cold. Thats definitely not related to the gear lever mechanism.

I always assumed it was a mismatched synchro ring and cone which is why it responds to oil type and temperature. But if people have actually got rid of it by drilling the vent hole for the selector, I guess thats what it must be.

Thats assuming this mod was done without any other replacement of parts such as synchro ring.

 

Sure heres the link , PhilB,s tip made alot more sense to me than installing the auto bleeder

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/308-328-sponsored-yellow-compass-group/373050-another-automatic-radiator-air-bleeder.html

Here's what I did on my '84 to address air in the system. I'm running like this 10 years now, maybe longer.

I added a cylindrical aluminum tank beneath the expansion tank. It has it's own overflow hose coming out of the top so that if there is ever a serious overheating issue, the coolant has a route to escape down behind the driver's side rear wheel. At the bottom of the cylindrical tank is a hose that connects to my expansion tank overflow port . In this manner, as the car heats up to operating temps, and the coolant expands and pee's out of the expansion tank a bit, it runs into the aluminum tank. Upon cool down, the coolant that flowed into the cylindrical tank get's sucked back into the expansion tank, rather than air getting sucked back in.

So I no longer need to bleed air from the system except annually when I change the coolant. And the car no longer pee's coolant onto the floor after a spirited drive on a hot day.

Couple of photos here of my setup:
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74789

 

Likely the same could have been achieved by adjusting the gear linkage. There are likely different causes for the "second gear issue" which are all being lumped into one but in reality are different causes and probably not the same exact symptoms.

 

I know!

The fact remains, there was a problem with most of these cars with second gear when new, which was internal to the gearbox. Its no myth. One of the guys who used to do pre-delivery inspection for Maranello Concessionaires, the UK importers, has confirmed that brand new cars had the problem and it was definitely not the linkage.

Your issue is not the same.

 

My 308 GTSi.

I have the 2nd gear issue. I have tried nearly every recommended tranny oil on the market. Nada. Will drill the hole the next time the pan comes off.


And, "YES," my "short front spoiler" car "gets light" in the front end at about 110-120mph with the spare NOT in the car. It is a bit unnerving. I really was not expecting that.

I would NOT drive it at 120mph+ without a tire in it, period.


I have never been to 140mph+/- in it so I can't say anything about handling at that speed.

 

+1

If you owned a Honda that wouldn't give you second gear when it was cold, you'd say the car was a piece of junk. But when a Ferrari does it we call it part of the mystique. And it is.

 

When it comes to the whole 2nd gear shift when cold issue, I think in true Ferrari style it varies from car to car - Some don't have an issue at all, whilst others do.

Let's not forget that this issue didn't start with the 308 series, it's well known that some 246 Dino's could be a real pain to get into 2nd when cold, and others weren't.

And it didn't end with the 308 series either, not only did the 328 have the same trait in many a car, but so did the 348 and the Testarossa.


To be strictly accurate, to say........:

...........is incorrect!

You state that in order to resolve the issue on your cars you had to modify the gear lever turret. That would indicate that without your mod, the 2nd gear-shift wasn't very good - That then means that the Ferrari 2nd gear legend must be true, but you've found what you believe to be a solution for it.


Out of interest, if the 2nd gear-shift issue is due to a mechanical issue with the gear lever turret's hole for the shifter rod, why does it only affect 2nd gear when cold? (the 2nd gear-shift usually works perfectly fine when the car has warmed up!)

 

You raise some very valid points.

 

My '77 GTB will shift into second from a "cold start" when it's 90 degrees outside, like Italy. Otherwise the car warms up and then there is no problem going to second.

 

I've stripped down and rebuilt about a half dozen of the 308/328 gearboxes. I've also modified the relief hole to resolve the shifting issue. Now if you are all patient enough and bear with me I'll do my best to explain the problem. It's fairly complex as it's not a single direct thing.

We need to start with the selector shafts, there are 3 of them. I'll be noting them as though the box is on the bench and 'upside down' to normal orientation in the vehicle. The shafts are in a 'step' arrangement.
No. 1: R & 1st
No. 2: 2nd & 3rd
No. 3: 4th & 5th

The first and closest shaft to the pan is for R & 1st, this shaft is supported along the entire length of the box. The center support bridge uses a 'lockout' feature of pins, what this means is that when one of the shafts is engaged in gear the others are prevented from moving due to the pins (think of pins in a lock tumbler) dropping into place and fixing the other two shafts in place. Now on one end of the gearbox is the "midplate" this plate seals the gear box and engine when they are mated. You'll notice all three shafts sticking out, looking at the midplate you'll find the casting has machined hole for selector shaft No. 1: and then a lowered trough for the other two shafts. The machined hole for No. 1: shaft has a very close tolerance and that blind hole will keep the shaft from having play when cold. Now recall the center bridge support in the gearbox, this is where the pins lock the shafts when one is engaged. Here's the interesting part, when shifting into 1st the shaft will press into the blind hole, it does not in itself provide to much resistance to engage the gear, now once you shift out of 1st into neutral the shaft has to vacate that blind hole.... close tolerance blind hole with an oil film... yep a partial vacuum in created. This pulls the shaft back a bit and miss aligns the holes in the shafts that lock out the others when engaged. Now if you're thinking why does it only effect 2nd and 3rd even though they are on the same shaft, it's because of how the hole is machined. Also shaft No. 2 sits below No. 1 and if that shaft is out just enough it'll keep No. 2 from moving freely but not No. 3.

The relief hole is to provide a means of letting oil/air flow into the blind hole.

Hope that explains in more detail the issue.

 

Interesting explanation thanks.

But I am wondering why, if the issue is the lockout pin not clearing the notch in the 2-3 shaft, the problem only affects 2nd gear and not 3rd also?

Its an interesting problem and amazing that they didnt cure it over such a long production run of 4 or 5 models.

 

It's hard to explain without pics, I might be able to get a couple later. I have a box stripped down but it's been 'boxed' up in storage. It's one of those things where everything comes together just right and makes one unique problem. A engineering puzzle if you will. It's not a 100% across the board issue, some gearboxes have just a bit more tolerance in the parts that it's not an issue.