IAG - Bad Experience

Wow. Talk about every long-distance classic car buyer's worst nightmare!

 

If I had it in writing that something was going to be fixed before a car was shipped to me I'd expect it to be done too. I wouldn't expect to need to have the car re-inspected by another dealer.

What I think I WOULD have done though is used the items that they would agree to fix to get the price down and then had my mechanic do the work anyway. But he should have been able to trust the dealer to fix what they said they would.

 

As with all stories / transactions, there are 2, in this case 3 or more sides to this story. Fortunately we have many e-mails and receipts (including the PPI performed on the car by Ferrari Fort Lauderdale and presented to Allen on behalf of his actual buyer by the name of Jackson).
We will be addressing Allen's "story" in detail shortly as we complete and compile our detailed and accurate information pertaining to this vehicle.

 

Let me first individually address Allen's complaints for clarity:

First, Allen did not begin purchasing the TR, a gentleman named Jackson did, who, after a few emails back and forth, enlisted Allen to facilitate the transaction from that point on. Second, the TR was not touted as above, the exact verbiage of the advertisements were (from Hemmings): "1991 Ferrari Testarossa: Rosso Corsa over Beige Leather, 33,464 original miles. Fresh major service in November of 2014, less than 100 miles ago. Dash was recovered in brand new leather, and presents as new. Seats show beautifully, with no bolster wear. Overall a truly collector quality Testarossa that can be driven without fear of undue depreciation!" and further, on our website here: 1991 Ferrari Testarossa For Sale (linked to save space).

The actual transaction "started" October 1st, when Allen sent partial payment and we began discussions about correcting the problems found in the PPI (performed by Ferrari of Fort Lauderdale, a copy of which is included as a .pdf file), final payment was supposed to be October 16 per the initial agreement, and delayed at Allen and the customer's request because of a delay in funds until October 23; prior to the revised 10/23 time frame, Allen began to discuss withholding funds until after all work was complete - this had not been a part of the initial contract, but in full disclosure, what we were initially told by Ferrari Ft. Lauderdale was that the work "should take about two weeks" which Allen translated into a firm timeline of 10/15 (this can be seen on the work order from Ferrari Fort Lauderdale as well). We never intended the estimate by Ferrari to be a deadline, nor was it communicated to Allen that it would be a firm deadline, simply an honest reponse to a question, and the completion of repairs was never discussed as an actual contingency for receiving payment.

Ferrari Ft. Lauderdale, due to delays receiving parts, did not complete the actual work until 10/28, and we did not pick up the car until 10/30 to begin our part of the work. That work on our end was completed Friday 11/6, and verified with photos for Allen and his client Monday, 11/9 (at the time we had split shops and showrooms, so we weren't able to pick car up from our company facility until Monday to get pictures to him. Of note is that balance of payment still hadn't been made, so Allen and his client were not deprived of funds and vehicle for any unreasonable period of time.

The main point of this long winded write-up being that Allen's time frame suggests unreasonable delays on our part, which was not the case. Additionally, Allen scheduled his own trucker as of 11/12 - when he or his client received it after that is not our fault and for him to suggest that he received the car at the end of November to imply that we caused almost a full month of delays is disingenuous.

First, Allen is laying it on a little here. For perspective, the receipts his buyer sent to him, which we'll get into in a bit, totalled $6,945 for work done, and there was an "estimate" for $2,700 additional work needed. While I'm not suggesting $7k or $10k is an insignificant number, it's hardly "tens of thousands of dollars". More to the point, as I think will be a bit more clear further on, I don't see any way the buyer could expect us to absorb that cost based on what we were presented with and what we know.

When Allen's trucker delivered the car, the battery was dead. There were no battery issues with the car when it was at our location, and no battery issues detected by Ferrari Fort Lauderdale. What was communicated to Allen during his initial phone call was that his complaint should be to his trucker, whom he contracted, and who apparently had the car for weeks if the time frame Allen put forth was accurate. If the trucker left the key on during a long trip, then the possibility existed that the battery had been killed, but to suggest it was our fault, when the car had performed flawlessly, had never had battery problems, and had taken a trickle charge with no issue during our ownership was our first red flag that this was a buyer looking for issues, not looking to solve them.

After this conversation, the only discussions between Allen and IAG were regarding the replacement wheel that we procured for him, and the time frame of sending the refinished wheel to him. There was no conversation back and forth between Allen and anyone at IAG about problems until late March, when he contacted us. In the first email regarding this, on 3/28 he states, "I kept intending to reach out to you once all of the issues had been identified and hopefully addressed (because you had always been both professional and reasonable). Well, it's now been 4 months but all of the issues still aren't resolved, so I thought I'd bring you into the loop." So, by his own admission, there was no "back and forth" and no "we'll get back to you" that was never addressed.

Aside from indicating to him that he should be contacting his trucking company if the battery had failed during whatever period of time it took the car to reach him, and apprising him of the time frame for sending him the replacement wheel, we had no other communication and were not ignoring him in any way.

After this initial contact, I will admit, communication was not good on our part. Unfortunately April is a whirlwind month, with Auctions America Fort Lauderdale taking place 4/1-4/3, Barrett Jackson Palm Beach 4/8-4/10, and Leake Dallas Spring 4/15-4/17 so unfortunately the three of us were running around like chickens with our heads cut off trying to get cars ready, transported to and from, and all the logistics that go along with buying and selling dozens of cars in a very short time frame. Sprinkle in spring break and it's a recipe for poor communication, so I will say that there was a period of a month in which we were not responsive to Allen. With that said, our final communication was fairly straightforward; after looking over the list of complaints, only 1 of which had anything to do with the PPI and the work we agreed to do (and which we had a receipt for from Ferrari of Fort Lauderdale), we asked if he had reached out to the dealer who had performed the PPI. We did not receive any response to this question, which I think given some of the issues I'll go over more below, is a perfectly reasonable thing to ask.

Regarding the issues with the car itself, I think it's first important to go over the initial PPI which was done by Ferrari Ft. Lauderdale. The issues that were found were:

Door Gaskets torn
High Beams inop
Radiator Cap not original
O2 Sensors inop
Rear hood insulation not original
Left Front Wheel Inner Bent
Left Rocker Underside Damaged

Prior to delivery, new door gaskets were installed, high beams were repaired, radiator cap was replaced, O2 sensors were replaced, hood insulation was removed, and rocker was repaired. Of all the things on the PPI list, the only one Allen and Jackson have issue with is the O2 sensors.

I am attaching the receipt from Ferrari Fort Lauderdale, who replaced the O2 sensors. I'm not sure what more I can provide...is his mechanic really suggesting that Ferrari of Fort Lauderdale, an authorized dealer, didn't do the work they billed us for? I find that to be all but impossible to believe.

Beyond that, all I can put forward is speculation regarding other issues Allen and his buyer are upset about (fuse panel, a/c inoperative, fuel pumps failed, and a few smaller things that I don't think warrant a long writeup): the car arrived, on his transporter, with a dead battery that was unable to be brought back to life. The car, while in my possession and at Ferrari was not noted to have any battery problems. I think it's fair to speculate that perhaps the driver left the key on? It certainly wouldn't be the first time, and it explains the battery being dead to the point of no return.

The car sat at Ferrari for almost a month and had no issues, and we had the car for longer than that, and again had no issues. If that were the case, and the battery were on during transport, is it much of a leap to wonder if the extended power cycle caused the issues with the fuse panel that manifested after the battery was replaced, but were never noted by Exotic Motors Midwest, who did an extensive service, us, who had the car for months and never noticed any problems with the electrical system, or Ferrari Fort Lauderdale's service department. A/C, which had just been upgraded to 134A by EMM and which I am certain was working flawlessly when I drove it, and was not noted in Ferrari Fort Lauderdale's PPI suddenly wasn't working at all. A glovebox door that I know worked fine because I took pictures of it open and closed was listed as an issue.

I know that we, as an independent dealer, don't garner a lot of trust from the community - no matter how many happy clients we have, not enough of them will speak up or out to counter the few loud unhappy ones, but in this case, even disregarding our own assertion that the car was running phenomenally when we had it, that the things that the buyer is claiming were wrong were actually working flawlessly while we had it, shouldn't a bit more attention be paid to the fact that an authorized Ferrari dealer didn't note any of the significant things that the buyer is claiming were wrong with the car? Hoping that this adds at least a bit of perspective to the original post.

 

Great to see the other side of the story, especially when it's so well presented and documented.

 

Agreed, I have no dog in this fight, but its nice to see a business step to the mic and address an issue with documentation.

 

Yes, nice to see both sides of the story.
IAG admits to poor communication and I think this exacerbated any frustrations the buyer already had.
It seems IAG ignored an existing customer in favor of looking for future sales.
Me thinks better communication and this would probably been smoothed out as the seller seems like he tried to make the car right.
Too many sellers forget that once the check clears the buyer still needs to be treated with respect. A response of essentially " I am busy" doesn't set well with me either.
As a buyer I can arrange for you to be less busy.

 

Allen,
Care to be specific about what was "jimmy rigged"? Aside the body work and correcting inop. high beams everything on the PPI seems to be R&R.
Who actually did the bodywork? The Ferrari doc IAG posted is only an estimate.

 

What's interesting is that we have had a fair number of Fchatters - some of whom are very picky (by their own admission) - buy cars from IAG and be very happy with their transactions. Some bought cars "as-is" at an appropriate price because they wanted to do the work to make the cars perfect and some paid top dollar for cars that were perfect or made to be perfect. In each of those cases, IAG was able to get them what they wanted at a price they liked. That's hard to do consistently across the board as that's a very wide range of clients with a ton of different requests/wants/needs.

After reading this whole thing and seeing IAG's response, it's not hard to see why those people were happy. It's clear that they take their clients seriously and do what's necessary to supply them with what they want. That's a lot of documentation for one transaction that was done through a broker (almost a year ago).

The only thing that stood out to me in this thread is what's the value of a broker? If anything, from how I'm reading this, I think that probably messes transactions up. It's pretty clear that IAG laid out a very different story than what was originally presented. I can't help but wonder if there was more miscommunication between the broker and the client.

I have no horse in this race but it's an interesting case study. I own a decent number of cars and have transacted through a variety of sellers. I wouldn't treat IAG any differently than I would any other dealer I was buying from. If anything, it looks like they're even better at documenting transactions than most and stand by what they say.

 

Very different from Norwood.

 

Did the trucker or Alan try to jump the battery in place? The picture on the first page shows a running car that had just backed out of the truck right? Color me confused.

 

It's not particularly hard to summarize. Allen facilitated a deal for a third party, in which he never saw a car (it's my understanding that Allen has never seen the car, having only acted as a broker on the transaction). Allen's customer received a car, had complaints about a car, hired a variety of people to work on a car, and then afterwards asserted that an authorized dealer overlooked or missed a multitude of items in a PPI, and additionally performed substandard, "jimmy-rigged" work. Of particular note is that the person responsible on the work order for having performed this work is the head mechanic at the aforementioned dealership, well known and of particular repute in the community.

Please note, IAG did (and at no point has Allen or his client asserted that we did not) perform all work as requested. Ferrari Fort Lauderdale replaced the O2 sensors and Coolant Cap, IAG replaced door seals with new seals from GT Car Parts, repaired high beams (contact in multi-position stalk that is a common failure point - easy to fix), repaired a scratch on the rocker, removed aftermarket decklid insulation, and supplied a replacement 5 lug wheel which was completely refurbished.

The only real complaint about work done was regarding work performed by Ferrari of Fort Lauderdale.

I have no idea how I would even begin to approach a local authorized dealer about a third party, with whom I have not had direct contact, having his broker contact us after 4+ months, during which no fewer than 3 mechanics touched the car, to claim that they had either neglected to perform work they billed me for, or had performed it in a fashion that was "jimmy-rigged".

Again, to be clear, you and Jackson did not have "HUGE issues with work performed by F-dealer and work performed by IAG"...per the emails you and Jackson sent, you had one issue, regarding O2 sensors which you both claimed had not been installed properly and tuned properly by an authorized Ferrari dealer. Beyond that, all your mechanical claims were specifically related to Ferrari of Fort Lauderdale not noticing issues that were noted after delivery of the car, after the battery had been drained to the point of being non-serviceable. It may be nuance, but I think it's important nuance in light of what we're talking about here, because I think, at the end of the day, there is a more logical explanation than "three reputable dealers failed to notice problems with my car", as I've suggested in my initial reply.

It really seems like you were complaining, very specifically, about that, as if we should be held responsible for issues that arose after Jackson took delivery of the car, which Exotic Motors Midwest, IAG, and Ferrari of Fort Lauderdale never noted during possession of the car in question. I've suggested a hypothesis as to what could have happened, but since I haven't seen the car since it left (and as far as I am aware neither has Allen), it's hard for me to do more.

 

No one is perfect and based on the handling of this I would buy from IAG.

This is exactly how I like to see an argument presented. No emotions.

 

This is Jason, not Artie, I took the time to read through all the communication between Jackson, yourself, Stu, Denice, Artie, and the service manager at Ferrari of Fort Lauderdale and respond accordingly to be sure that I was starting with a fresh slate, looking only at the facts of the deal, and stating only what we know. I don't want anyone feeling mislead by who posted what, I posted our two previous responses to the topic for that specific purpose - so it was a set of fresh eyes looking at everything we have going back to Jackson's first email.

By this point, I'm hoping the hyperbole and lack of specifics being posted by Allen speaks for itself, I think the facts are pretty clear. The only things I omitted were things that were considered ancillary to the larger points of either "Issues that were known via PPI and fixed and documented" and "Issues that arose at some point after car was delivered by your carrier with a dead battery that were not noted by Exotic Motors Midwest, IAG, or Ferrari Fort Lauderdale".

If the community would like more specificity about things that fell outside the scope of the PPI, which were noted at some point after delivery and of which we were made aware nearly 4 months after delivery, I'm happy to spend the time, but it seemed a bit over the top. I'll let FChat guide me on whether they would prefer we go through line-items.

None of that changes the fact that we did do everything we said we would. Literally. Every single thing. Everything on the list was done. Documented via receipt, or photos that were sent to Allen before final payment was sent. Saying that it wasn't without any specifics doesn't make it so.

 

Clearly, these two statements are difficult to reconcile...

 

This thread is great for people who are not versed on delicate and valuable vintage second hand products that are voluntarily routed through a complex supply chain with few if any checks along the way. I didn't know there were any left but It's a big ask to place high expectations on the result!

Scorecard:
Selling Dealer - Temporary Setback to Credibility
OP (Broker) - Temporary Setback to Credibility
New Owner - Commandment of "See it/Touch it First Before Buying" VALIDATED.
Ferrari Market - Unchanged
Vintage Product Market - Unchanged
Florida Used Car Market Myths - Unchanged
Expectations of Un-named / Un-known Auto Transport Services - Unchanged
Expectations of 4th party actions initiated through 3rd party handling of a 2nd party request - Was there ever any doubt?
Did I miss anything?

 

You had enough time to come here, post multiple times about your assertion that IAG was someone to steer clear of, maybe you should MAKE the time to go point by point now.

You claim of not having the "time" feels disingenuous.

D

 

Or maybe he should have waited and not posted a thing until he had time.

 

Meh, can't un-ring that bell, but can sure as hell back up his assertions now that the seller has chimed in with a well documented, well reasoned counter argument.

But if he doesn't, well, then we're left to our own conclusions, right?

D

 

Yes, I also would appreciate you taking the time to post the receipts for $20K+ the buyer spent.

Wiley, I agree with Kevin that the car does appear to be running. Can you confirm that it did, or did not, start when it came off the trailer? I mean if it did start when it was driven off the trailer, the battery must have been run down after the buyer accepted delivery.

 

Yeah, agreed. It is pretty crappy to post up a complaint thread and not have a well reasoned and documented case and then get served crow with a reply that is well reasoned and documented.

 

Good point. AFAIC, people are innocent until proven guilty. IAG has offered a well presented explanation of their position. In order for the OP to substantiate his claims he needs to be more specific and offer some sort of evidence.

 

Agreed

One party has presented a very detailed point by point list. The other is emotionally ranting.