Symptoms of cam timing error | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Symptoms of cam timing error

Discussion in '308/328' started by Gloria Giulio, Sep 28, 2016.

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  1. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    It could be a bad working fuel pump too and even a not completely open fuel tank venting tube, that makes the fuel pump cavitate when the temperture in the engine bay becomes high.

    And AndyWW didn't write a bad thing: it could be that too.



    ciao
     
  2. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    you can also check for an air leak somewhere: try to spray some WD 40 around the airbox, intake manifolds and air filter box (not on the exhaust manifolds...) with the engine idling. If RPM goes up a bit when you are spraying, there is an air leak

    good luck


    ciao
     
  3. Gloria Giulio

    Gloria Giulio Karting

    Jun 6, 2013
    143
    Those are a couple of interesting avenues to explore too.

    The fuel pump was changed around four or five years ago so that should (?) be OK.

    GG
     
  4. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    Check the venting tube. Drive the car for a bit, stop the engine and immediately remove the fuel tank cap: If there is some depression inside you found the problem

    Ciao
     
  5. andyww

    andyww F1 Rookie

    Feb 7, 2011
    2,775
    London
    Thats a good point, because in the pictures on this and the other thread, the vent pipe seems to be missing. It should run across the top of the bulkhead next to the fuel supply pipe and the larger vapour balance pipe. Its a small black hose which connects to an outlet at the top of the filler neck and runs across then down again to emerge near the bottom of the RH tank.
     
  6. fdekeu

    fdekeu Formula Junior
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    Jun 19, 2008
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    Just another idea

    Backfiring means too much fuel burning in a hot exhaust
    The cold start valve of my friends 328 was leaking some time ago
    causing hot start problems
    Maybe yours is starting to leak when the engine gets hot
     
  7. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Do you have glowing header(s)?
     
  8. climb

    climb F1 Rookie

    Sep 19, 2006
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    By depression you mean a sucking sound?
     
  9. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    Exactly: I apologize fir my poor English.

    Ciao
     
  10. Gloria Giulio

    Gloria Giulio Karting

    Jun 6, 2013
    143
    #35 Gloria Giulio, Oct 1, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
    No glowing headers, so far as I am aware.

    The cold start valve could be an issue but the car normally runs fine, even when well warmed up. It is only under a specific set of circumstances that this problem arises.

    Regarding the venting tube, there is no black tube that I have seen running across the bulkhead in the position you suggested, andyww. However I do get a petrol smell when going around right (or is it left hand) bends which I believe is common in Euro cars and is linked to the venting tube. However it would be nice to find it if it is there. Bearing in mind that this is an 87 Euro car, does anybody have a photograph to show what the venting tube should look like and where exactly it should be?

    (I have looked on the Eurospares diagram of the fuel pump and pipes but it does not really show it.)

    GG

    PS. On checking with a previous thread, the petrol smell on Euro cars is linked to an overflow into the filler pipe, not the venting tube.
     
  11. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
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    Isle of man- uk
    What is this cylinder and piping in the picture- looks like a home made job ? Pipe has kinks in it ?
     
  12. Gloria Giulio

    Gloria Giulio Karting

    Jun 6, 2013
    143
    It is supposed to be the fuel filter and the pipe that leads to the fuel metering device. I agree, it does look rather odd in the photograph. However so far as I am aware it is original and I have never noticed a kink in it, but now you point it out I will need check more closely.

    GG
     
  13. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Yep it is certainly kinked and I think we all know EXACTLY HOW it got that way.
     
  14. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
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    I think you will find that is not original, its a different shape to the eurospares diagram. The piping itself is cadmium plated with a finish called passivation hence its greenish colour. It is seemless piping used in the hydraulics industry as i have used it at work- very good stuff if bent correctly but that is a terrible job. You can buy lengths of it and bend it to suit with a pipe bender. The kinks in it looks like it has been bent in a vice rather than a proper pipe bender.

    On my mondial the fuel filter was down by the fuel pump and away from the heat, behind the right hand wheel insert. Is that the correct place on a 328 as i am not sure.

    If that is the fuel supply line, where is the return line back to the fuel tank ?
     
  15. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Are you kidding?

    I wish I knew two languages. I'm stuck in just one (specifically, Southern English/redneck) :)
     
  16. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    A friend car (not a Ferrari) had more or less the same problem. At the end we discovered it was a missing heat shield in the engine bay that overheated the fuel line. But in the 3x8 Euro I don't remember any heat shields so maybe it can be a pipe out of place: Possible, but not probable.

    Ciao
     
  17. Gloria Giulio

    Gloria Giulio Karting

    Jun 6, 2013
    143
    The fuel return in the standard position from the diagram, on the RHS of the engine bay. If that piping is not original then I need to explore what else has been interfered with in this area. How about the fuel filter. Can anybody tell me if that the normal position for it? It looks about right based on the Eurospares diagram but the pipe deifinitely looks a different shape.

    GG
     
  18. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

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    Is that pipe hot when the engine has run for say 30 minutes as should be cool, also put your hand on the return line and both should be same temperature- this should prove you have flow from the tank via the pump and its return to the tank. This flow will decrease the heat in the pipe , like a cooling effect..

    It should be easy to put an alloy shield bent to the same curviture as the fuel filter about 40 mm away from the filter- the 40 mm air gap will stop a lot of the heat.( air is a very good insulator)

    Looking at the poor fit of the pipe, that might be why it is not behind the insulation as he did not know how to bend it correctly. Get some house loft insulation and put around the pipe with some thin wire, then cover it in kitchen alloy foil, do this as an experiment as it costs nothing and see if it helps.
     
  19. Gloria Giulio

    Gloria Giulio Karting

    Jun 6, 2013
    143
    OK, thanks for those suggestions. It would be good to know where the fuel line is supposed to be, for when I strip out the aluminium heat shield.

    GG
     
  20. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    6,016
    Isle of man- uk
    Have a look at your other thread, someone has posted a pic of a 328 pipe and the insulation
     
  21. Gloria Giulio

    Gloria Giulio Karting

    Jun 6, 2013
    143
    I am not sure if Andy's picture on the other thread shows the fuel pipe. I think the two pipes are the breather and the venting tube.

    Is there a Euro car owner here who can tell me whether I should have a black venting tube running across the bulkhead between engine and cabin above or below the silver breather tube that connects the two fuel tanks. I do not have this tube, which seems to be visible in UK cars (not sure about US).

    GG
     
  22. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    I would get rid of that insulating panel
     
  23. Gloria Giulio

    Gloria Giulio Karting

    Jun 6, 2013
    143
    Yes, removing the aluminium insulating material is already in the schedule. Do you have, or have access to a Euro 328, Alberto? I need to find out where the venting tube goes. I also need to find out exactly where the fuel feed from the filter is routed.

    GG
     
  24. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    #49 Albert-LP, Oct 2, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2016
    I'm sorry but I sold my 328 one month ago. I have a picture of the engine bay somewhere but it doesn't show that detail. Does your car have a catalytic converter or is that still 100% euro without any catalytic converter? I remember that the room between the engine and the passenger cabin was wider than your one: Maybe the problem is that, due to a too big insulating panel

    Ciao

    Edit: I don't remember an insulation around the fuel lines: There is something strange in your engine bay, but I don't work by myself on the engine so maybe I'm wrong
     
  25. Gloria Giulio

    Gloria Giulio Karting

    Jun 6, 2013
    143
    Hi. It is 100% Euro so far as I know. Certainly there is no catalytic converter.

    GG
     

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