Ferrari 512 1004 & 1012 | FerrariChat

Ferrari 512 1004 & 1012

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by dwall, Oct 7, 2016.

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  1. dwall

    dwall Rookie

    Oct 2, 2004
    20
    hello can somebody enlighten me on the histories of these cars ? The ex Lampe chassis appears to be considered 1004. If this is correct what happened to 1012?
    many thanks for any info
     
  2. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,739
    1012 was driven in practice for the 16th Annual ADAC 1000 kms at the Nürburgring (31 May 1970), Germany, to be raced by Peter Schetty and co-driver John Surtees, race #56, DNS due to a crash where the front half was very heavily damaged. Photos can be easily found on fchat (use search function top left) and elsewhere.
    June 3, 1970, the wreck was returned from Germany to Maranello, engine and gearbox were recovered, the chassis frame was cut in pieces because it could not be repaired.
    The factory never sold 1012. This car ceased to exist. Period.

    Marcel Massini
     
  3. dwall

    dwall Rookie

    Oct 2, 2004
    20
    thanks for your answer. may i ask what is the ex lampe car because i was lead to believe Ferrari ratified the chassis as 1004
     
  4. 330's Inc.

    330's Inc. Rookie

    Nov 20, 2014
    23
    Full Name:
    Dwayne
    I just want to know what happen to Manfred Lampe? I rode in his 512 around Road America years ago sitting on the fuel cell and I tell you that ride change my whole outlook on life. I have a great book that Manfred wrote on 512's that I cherish in my collection. I remember him driving a SWB with straight pipes over to our house when I was a kid. I know you were talking about a certain chassis I just wanted to acknowledge a cool dude.
     
  5. Ney

    Ney F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 20, 2004
    6,629
    I believe that Manfred Lampe is alive and well and living in Mallorca....
     
  6. cavallorampante

    Feb 5, 2018
    16
    Full Name:
    Jack Crawford
    In reality 1012 was destroyed in a crash and written off at Nurburgring 1970. Lately there has been some very fishy information about both 1004 and 1012. As Far as I can remember over all these years; John Giordano has owned 1004. I posted a pic of his car.
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  7. cavallorampante

    Feb 5, 2018
    16
    Full Name:
    Jack Crawford
     
  8. cavallorampante

    Feb 5, 2018
    16
    Full Name:
    Jack Crawford
    1012 Seems to have come up again as a living breathing chassis number recently. Have you heard anything about the sale Girardo is making of a car claimed to be 1004 stamped as Chassis 1012? I noticed Girardo has 1012--1004 up for sale again. This time he has tweaked the history a little bit more.
    He admits that Lampe had a chassis stamped 1012, but no explanation how it was stamped as such
     
  9. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2003
    1,582
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    AdK
    What exactly then is "1012" as first shown by Manfred Lampe in the late nineties and later raced by Peter Read?
     
  10. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
    22,739
    Incorrect information.
    Once again: The factory never sold 1012. A 512 with #1012 does not exist anymore.
    And Peter Read never ever owned or raced a 512 S using the serial number 1012.

    For all the rest please use the link as posted by Giotto in post 10 here.
    No need to repeat everything again and again. Please do a bit more reading. You can learn a lot.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  11. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2003
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    AdK
    I love to get educated, so I will read the thread listed in post #10 again.

    As you probably know, the info about Lampe and Read is from another well known website, which is proven not always to be correct.

    However, in the past owners of replica's / fakes / continuation cars have posted on this site as well, often to promote the legitimacy of their own cars, which is for outsiders not always easy to recognize as such. Is all to be trusted in that thread?
     
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  12. cavallorampante

    Feb 5, 2018
    16
    Full Name:
    Jack Crawford
    excellent question; I have seen a photograph of a car stamped "1012" in Lampes garage well after the car was written off by Ferrari and the chassis was destroyed. It seems to me like 1012 was salvaged and sold (not surprising or unheard of as Nick Masons 512S chassis 1026 was also completely destroyed and gutted - then sold off and is essentially a replica of 1026. The story line for many years was that 1012 did not exist, then it suddenly exists - furthermore, someone mysteriously stamped 1004 as 1012? Why would someone stamp a perfectly good chassis (1004) as a destroyed chassis (1012) and then stamp it back 1004? What is going on out there in the world.
     
  13. cavallorampante

    Feb 5, 2018
    16
    Full Name:
    Jack Crawford
    Respectfully Mr Massini; While you may consider some of us repeating the same thing over and over - the details and facts of the 25 512S gets ,more and more convoluted; Especially 1012 - which was sold and restored by Bob Houghton - and then magically was found to be 1004. How is the going over the same details when this is information that wasn't released until the recent of "1004" by Girardo and Company.

    Who, when, when, why, and how did 1004 get restamped 1012 by an "no name Italian?" Was a it a drunk Italian in a parking lot with a brass plate and hammer? Or was it someone of more significance whose name we will never know?
     
  14. GIOTTO

    GIOTTO F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Dec 30, 2006
    3,597
    FRANCE
    Maybe $$$ ?
     
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  15. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,739
    #16 Marcel Massini, Mar 22, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2023
    I can only assume that you are fishing.
    You have been fchatter for 5 years. Apparently you never followed the 512 S thread (the other, long one mentioned earlier). Did you go thru everything? Did you check all the detail photos? What did you not understand?
    Nobody ever said that Bob Houghton sold 1012. That is pure fantasy and typical internet b.s..
    Nobody ever said that Bob Houghton restored 1012. That is pure fantasy and typical internet b.s..
    Nothing is convoluted.
    Ferrari Classiche red book certified 1004 on 22 November 2011 with Certificate #1473 F. That is almost 12 years ago. Girardo and Co has zero to do with that and at the time was not involved with the certification and they were not representing the car, not at all. Thus, this is not "recent".
    FYI the current owner of 512 S #1004 is a well known and active ferrarichatter (based in Switzerland) that has owned about 20 classic Ferraris in the past, he bought 1004 in 2017 (it came from Peter Read) and has raced it since then in Le Castellet, Le Mans Classic and Monza, and practiced at Mugello and Varano. During the last 15 years I have inspected 1004 multiple times, personally know the current owner, and the two former owners since many many years. I also personally know the man who sold 1004 one year after the certification from Lampe to Read. And I did know personally the Italian man who in 1979 sold the frame to Lampe.
    And yes, the current owner of 1004, now wants to sell the car via Girardo & Co. and that's why they had it on their stand at Retromobile in Paris February 2023.
    Also, before anybody asks, I have no horse in this race and am not on anybody's payroll and have zero financial interest.

    Marcel Massini

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  16. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    southwest germany and thailand
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    romano schwabel
    well said marcel and a great statement :)
     
  17. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2003
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    AdK
    Which answered my initial questions. Thank you Marcel!
     
  18. cavallorampante

    Feb 5, 2018
    16
    Full Name:
    Jack Crawford
    Mr Massini,

    thanks for your response; But I’m not sure about the “fishing” comment or your comment about having skin in the game? I know that Bob Houghton had 1012 for a fact - this is not fiction. I know for a fact that Lampe had 1012 in his garage and that there are photographs of it sitting in the garage. Why do you make no mention of John Giordano’s 1004? Have you never seen it? How was that car 1004 and then magically another 1004 appeared out of nowhere in and around the mid - 2000s? Can you explain this strange phenomenon?

    As far as Ferrari chat; I don’t believe that participation on this site, nor the copying and pasting of “facts” makes anyone legitimate or not - I personally am too busy trying to find my next 18 year old wife rather than read confusing “facts” on a website. Some still say the US never landed on the moon; And there’s videos of that too.

    I’m interested in your take on the 512s John Giordano owned that was also chassis 1004 - can you explain how that 1004 is now not 1004 or a stunt double?

    - Jack Fish Crawford
     
  19. cavallorampante

    Feb 5, 2018
    16
    Full Name:
    Jack Crawford
    Marcel,

    If you know the Italian that sold the chassis, then why don’t you tell us who it is?
     
  20. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

    Apr 13, 2007
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    São Paulo, Brazil
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    Mario
    The answers to the questions regarding John Giordano's car are in the aforementioned longer thread. Then again I have a feeling you know that. That's why it seems like you are fishing.
     
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  21. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,739
    The man is dead since more than two decades.
    And why do you need to know this? What is your "interest" in all this?
    Fishing? Buddy of the U.S. east coast owner?
    I mean, 15 posts in five years on fchat........
    Why don't you tell us a bit more who you really are?

    Marcel Massini
     
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  22. TTR

    TTR F1 Veteran
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    Mar 29, 2007
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    Timo
    And yet you seem to have time to pile on to confusion and rather than providing solid, physical, firsthand proof for your proclaimed “facts”, you keep asking others to refute them and/or providing more proof for theirs. :confused:
     
  23. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
    22,739
    #24 Marcel Massini, Mar 22, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2023
    Once again incorrect information.
    Lampe had in his garage in Spain (where I went several times) a car with a custom made tag 1012. It was NOT 1012, simply because the factory never ever sold 1012.
    And once again, Houghton did NOT have 1012, simply because the factory never sold 1012. NO such facts exist, that is total and complete b.s., fiction, fantasy and nonsense. Please stop spreading incorrect information.
    Oh, btw, the photos of the car in Lampe's garage, were taken by me. I did hundreds over several days and visits there.

    As for the Giordano car I can assure you that I have seen it at least a dozen times since it has been in his ownership (31 January 1987) at all sorts of events in the U.S. (Palm Beach, Sebring, Laguna Seca, Road America/Elkhart Lake, Mont Tremblant, Manhasset, Watkins Glen, Lime Rock Park, etc.). And prior to Giordano's ownership I did see the very same car when it was in Dallas/TX 1984 and prior to that in Germany (I saw it in Dreieich-Frankfurt 1979, 1980, and also at the Nürburgring) and prior to that when it was right in my neighborhood in Switzerland (1978 at Sports Garage Di Cerbo in Wallisellen near Zurich). I live 6 miles away.

    Clearly you are fishing.

    BTW, what's your connection with "p_gio" (a.k.a. Peter Giorgio, a.k.a. Mr. Giordano) and "lgs" (the Zurich based attorney and Serenissima owner)? Very overenthusiastic fchatters in the other thread............

    Marcel Massini
     
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  24. cavallorampante

    Feb 5, 2018
    16
    Full Name:
    Jack Crawford
    I want to know the facts. Can you explain to me why 1004 was stamped 1012? Was that the car that Manfred had?

    Fishing is something you do in the water - these are computers.


    QUOTE="Marcel Massini, post: 149058135, member: 16985"]Once again incorrect information.
    Lampe had in his garage in Spain (where I went several times) a car with a custom made tag 1012. It was NOT 1012, simply because the factory never ever sold 1012.
    And once again, Houghton did NOT have 1012, simply because the factory never sold 1012. NO such facts exist, that is total and complete b.s., fiction, fantasy and nonsense. Please stop spreading incorrect information.
    Oh, btw, the photos of the car in Lampe's garage, were taken by me. I did hundreds over several days and visits there.

    As for the Giordano car I can assure you that I have seen it at least a dozen times since it has been in his ownership (31 January 1987) at all sorts of events in the U.S. (Palm Beach, Sebring, Laguna Seca, Road America/Elkhart Lake, Mont Tremblant, Manhasset, Watkins Glen, Lime Rock Park, etc.). And prior to Giordano's ownership I did see the very same car when it was in Dallas/TX 1984 and prior to that in Germany (I saw it in Dreieich-Frankfurt 1979, 1980, and also at the Nürburgring) and prior to that when it was right in my neighborhood in Switzerland (1978 at Sports Garage Di Cerbo in Wallisellen near Zurich). I live 6 miles away.

    Clearly you are fishing.

    BTW, what's your connection with "p_gio" (a.k.a. Peter Giorgio, a.k.a. Mr. Giordano) and "lgs" (the Zurich based attorney and Serenissima owner)? Very overenthusiastic fchatters in the other thread............

    Marcel Massini[/QUOTE]
     
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