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Blue Flags ?

Discussion in 'F1' started by Beau365, Oct 9, 2016.

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  1. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
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    Pete
    Well said.
    Pete
     
  2. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

    Feb 27, 2005
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    Beau
    Good line :)
    There's only one winner - everyone else lost.
     
  3. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,856
    #28 DeSoto, Oct 10, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2016
    In an ideal world I´d agree with the idea of stopping the lapped cars: the racing would be a lot fairer. Sometimes a driver gains a fews tenths opening the DRS to overtake a lapped car in the straight and the guy behind him looses 1 second behind the same lapped car in a chicane.

    But the Manors of the world need some exposure to keep alive. How are they going to improve without sponsorship?

    Yesterday at Suzuka only the 12th got lapped but more often than I liked the Mercedes lap the 8th or 9th. Also, even if they´re not fighting for points, some drivers make an interesting move or manage to impress. Fernando Alonso got lapped very often when he was a beginner (and again now in a quite intriguing symmetrical situation).
     
  4. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,856
    #29 DeSoto, Oct 10, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2016
    The speed difference between classes is huge in Resistance. Actually drivers of the slower classes are advised to follow their normal line when lapped to avoid confusions and misjudgements. The prototypes are so much faster that they can pass on the outside without problem.

    Managing to not loose time when getting lapped is an important skill for drivers of backmarker F1 teams, just like lapping slow cars is for top drivers. It´s just another part of their job, and probably not an easy one, as the drivers that get to F1 were top drivers in slower categories and are not used to get lapped.
     
  5. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie

    The ultimate conclusion of that theory is just 2 Mercs competing per race ;)
     
  6. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,883


    I am not aware of any F1 race where the 2 Mercs lapped the rest of the field.

    Do you have any example to share with us?

    Usually, about 13 of the cars get lapped; not a big deal.
     
  7. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,883
    I do agree that eliminating lapped cars on short tracks, or during an endurance event is not realistic.

    But, during a GP (which is a relatively short race, it's doable on most tracks on the calendar, I think.

    Same system as during qualifs.
     
  8. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie

    They have no need to turn up their engines for most of a race when they're sitting out at the front with maximum points. However, it doesn't mean back markers should move off line for them to make it even easier for Mercs to pass a slower car, just because they don't like turbulent air.
     
  9. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,883

    Why single out Mercedes into this discussion about blue flags anyway?

    The suggested rules would apply to anyone, and could benefit any car that meets backmarkers on the track.

    Even Ferraris, Red Bulls, Force India and Williams had to overtake backmarkers at the Japan GP, for example, not just Mercedes.

    Your point ?
     
  10. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie

    Back markers being forced to move offline and wave through leading cars prevents them from catching up the field towards the end of the race. Many cars get faster, even poor ones, when on low fuel and would like to progress closer to the front. Moving offline can result in an entire lousy lap due to tyre pick-up / clean etc, which can affect a slower car more than an efficient one.
     
  11. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,883

    I wasn't even mentioning about them moving offline, I was proposing to eliminate them from the race!!

    In most cases, a backmarker about to be lapped doesn't stand a chance of being among the point scoring cars anyway. In between, he can impede the progression of faster cars, and become an hindrance in their race.

    Just like the rules don't allow all the cars to last the full qualification sessions, but eliminate the slow ones, the rules would eliminate racers that are already one lap behind, and have no chance to figure well.

    That's what I was suggesting.
     
  12. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
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    Pete
    Tough *****.

    Don't like it go faster and don't get lapped. Gee talk about having it backwards; compromising the serious end of the race for the field fillers? ???
    Pete
     
  13. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,883
    +1
     
  14. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    +1
     
  15. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie

    Ofcourse, it may well be that driver A in a fast car has poor racecraft and struggles to overtake slower cars. Blue flags are favouring car design rather than driver talent. On the flipside there is currently only a handful of drivers with superb racecraft piloting a slow car, Alonso being one.
     
  16. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,883
    Let's the leaders race without hindrance, and stop worrying about the mobile chicanes that can spoil the race.
     
  17. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    It's more about minimizing risk. How would you feel being taken out by someone a lap down because he's decided he suddenly wants to race you even though he stands no chance?
     
  18. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,832
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Bah. We use blue flags for back markers in Formula Ford. Has nothing to do with car design or F1; it's just racing.

    Get faster or get in a faster car...or pick up a new profession. Notice that none of the backmarkers are complaining?
     
  19. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,832
    Pittsburgh, PA
    ...or thy might insert themselves in between the leaders and kill someone's race.
     
  20. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    exactly.
     
  21. Jana

    Jana F1 Veteran

    Mar 4, 2015
    9,872
    Exactly. In my young, thin days, I raced motocross. No radio communication. That flag was what alerted lapped riders that a frontrunner was approaching and not someone they were trying to stay ahead of. Lapped motocross riders move out of the main line, despite the fact that it slows their progress. Fans don't care about the guy in 18th place in any race, UNLESS he screws things up for the frontrunners.
     
  22. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

    Feb 27, 2005
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    Equally, let more "talented" drivers in faster cars overtake slower cars with less talented drivers without artificial assistance. You are racing whoever is next to you on the track.

    In FFC I never saw a blue flag, even when trying to pass a fat-ar$ed modified Testarossa through Graham Hill bend.

    Get on with overtaking - and stop complaining !

    The other side of the coin:
    F1: Blue flags require 'compromises' - Ocon - F1i.com
     
  23. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    But that's the thing, You've already raced them and they are now a lap down. They have no business meddling with the front!
     
  24. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,832
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I agree blue flags are not easy and require compromises. Ocon isn't complaining though, just pointing out the challenge.

    I hated getting blue flags in my first race. I had to compromise in a scary part of the track and let the leaders by. The kid who won the race came up to me and thanked me afterwards. If I hadn't done it, the lead pack of 4 cars would have been split and 2 of the racers would have been out of contention in all likelihood. I then worked my ass off and haven't seen them since.

    You really cannot just pass whenever you catch someone and it's very hard to control when you come upon backmarkers.
     
  25. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,832
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Exactly. They ended up there for a reason.
     

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