Squeak between gears is normal - according to ferrari

Ok so i posted this the other day on another post but am after a yes / no post from everybody as to wether you have the squeak.

https://youtu.be/nQT_dDz3kck

According to the service manager he said 60% of the 458 he sees have it. I asked him to speak to ferrari and he spoke to the northern europe technical manager at ferrari, who said its the clutch plate pack as it squirts at higher revs and is a known issue with no fix and affects 80% of the cars out there.

I know a few people have it but im a: not convinced its not fixable and b: wondered ehat other people had done to fix it and c: how many people have it and if they find it acceptable?

 

I don't have a 458 and have never heard of this, however I would not accept such claim from the dealer. Once you notice that sound you cannot hear anything else other than that.

 

Video is not of good quality so difficult to appreciate. I can hear the squeak at the end of the video. Absolutely normal.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Is this a joke?

All I can hear is a girl (?) squealing ... I think.

Pete

 

This is no joke its doing my head in. Only had the car for a few hours before they came and got it again and unfortuantly while trying to film the noise I had my daughter in the car

Turn the volume up noise is 2-3 and then 3-4

Bbbbbbrrrrrmmmm squeak brrrrrrrrmmmmmm squeak

 

Can def hear it, would drive me insane..
Hope you find a solution, the 80% thing is bollocks imo
Keep us posted..

In the meantime I will ask my uber tech at FofLA and send him your video.

Very best

 

Email with your video sent to two uber techs, will relay info
xoxo

 

25+k miles. No squeak.

 

I'd say it's more likely the serpentine belt slipping for just a moment or some clearance/movement related issue between the engine and the chassis (mounts etc?). I can appreciate the velocity and quickness of the escaping oil from a clutchpack as it's being opened during an aggressive shift, but I'm skeptical that it would sound like a squeak or squeal.

 

Do 488's have wet clutches? Is this because they have a dual clutch gearbox?

Pete

 

Correct.

 

Thankyou so much! It really is driving me nuts, and the 80% thing is really annoying as 20 owners of 458/488 ive met have all said they dont have a squeak so the numbers arnt stacking up for me....

 

It's quite interesting to see how Ferrari views the issues relating to their vehicles as "normal"...squeaks, rattles and sticky buttons no big deal

 

No problem, will keep you posted, I think it might be serpentine related as Mark said.
best

 

I sold my Speciale becos of that squeak. It's an absolute embarrassment. How people could rave about the 9k rpm, but tolerate that off-putting sound is beyond me. PhilNotHill shared this tip about replacing the magnesium crankshaft pulley in a thread. You might want to investigate this: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/458-italia-488/530563-high-pitched-squeal.html

 

A simple and quick test of the belt would be to buy some belt dressing from an auto parts store and shoot some on the belt while its running. Typically, this increases the friction enough to stop a chirping belt. Problem is, the easy way (from the top) isn't so easy when it requires crawling over the engine to access the alternator where the belt can be sprayed. I built a little "diving board" so I could get to the front of the engine more easily.
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Interesting info, Maxvonauto. Did u actually managed to fix the squeak using belt dressing?

 

The squeal occurred only when the car was hot, never cold. When l would restart the car it would squeal very loudly. Then it would start squealing when at a stop light.

They replaced the belt, power steering pump, alternator. They finally thought of replacing the magnesium crankshaft pulley. Never has done it again in three months. Never herd it squeak between shifts.

It was covered under the full extended warranty. Dealer is sure they fixed it.

 

No, mine's never made noise. Just saying it's easy to eliminate the belt as the source of the problem (assuming the tensioner isn't bad).

 

The dealer replaced the belt and tensioner...more than once. That wasn't my car's problem.

 

I suspect your situation was anomalous. Having machined many pulleys myself I know how sensitive (prone to slipping/noise) they can be to dimensional accuracy.

And frankly, if there's air in the DCT high pressure circuit it can make a high frequency noise when presented a large pressure drop, such as when opening a clutchpack. The DCT is designed to eliminate any trapped air typically associated with initial assembly or oil change. However, any leak in the suction side of the DCT pump pickup that's above oil level can introduce air on a continuous basis. Normally, the entire pickup should be below operating oil level. However, it's possible that under heavy acceleration a DCT which is a quart or two low on fluid (out of approx. 8 qts) might uncover the pump inlet which if not sealed properly could let air into the system. Note: DCT fluid should not to be confused with the gearbox/diff oil which is also contained in the transaxle but kept isolated.

My experience is that most dealers rarely (if ever) check or change the DTC fluid. So the potential for a under fill condition from the factory might go undetected.
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Very insightful. Thanks for including the annotated picture.

Am I correct in that these DCTs are "sealed units" nowadays? No maintenance required? Even if this is true, do you know if there is a simple method to check the oil level and add oil if necessary? Personally, even if they say it's a sealed unit, I'd like to change the oil periodically.

 

My Speciale had the same problem...
May i know which part of belt/tensioner should i ask the dealer to check?
Thx

 

Story goes here in Portugal that these DCT are indeed sealed units and no maintenance is required. What changed is that now Ferrari can also perform work and repairs on DCT instead of sending the unit back to Getrag.

I'm with Rick: I always get suspicious when I hear the words "lifetime" and/or "no maintenance", as there's virtually nothing in this life that doesn't require some sort of attention and periodic care. Even if oil changes aren't mandatory or necessary, if done periodically I honestly believe it'll contribute to a component having better (or keep) performance over time and contribute to greater longevity of a component before replacement.

Kind regards,

Nuno.

 

The DCT is only considered "sealed" because Ferrari (along with Getrag) said so and therefore had no procedures or parts available other than a complete unit swap. Maybe there was some proprietary technology (at the time), a non-compete agreement, liability issues, or possibly Ferrari figured the unit was too complicated for anyone to repair. In any case, over the past couple years Ferrari has reconsidered a bit and offered special training on the DCT allowing some dealers to obtain the expertise to repair them. Some independents have been doing this for years as truth be told, they aren't that complicated.

In regards to checking DCT hydraulic fluid level and changing fluid, yes there is a simple way to do it. Let's face it, what if one of the two DCT oil cooler lines springs a leak and it needs to be replaced? You will certainly lose some DCT fluid in the process. Do you now need to replace the whole DCT just because it's "sealed". Of course not, just add more fluid. In fact, the 458 workshop manual spells it out along with the procedure for checking and changing the DTC gear oil. However, it's time consuming to do it right, which is why I feel most dealers simply dismiss it.

The short answer for checking DCT hydraulic fluid is to simply remove a plug! The plug is under the fluid level tube which acts as a "go no-go" gage. If fluid pours out you’re probably good. If no fluid pours out the trans is underfilled so simply pump some more in until it does. Reinstall the plug and done! Obviously, the under tray and diffuser need to be removed which can be done on jackstands.

HOWEVER, to avoid over/underfill the proper operating conditions must be met. The hydraulic section of the DCT is like a dry sump system in that there's a tremendous amount of oil circulating around outside the main sump. The oil cooler, filter housing and the clutchpacks themselves hold quite a bit of fluid and therefore the engine must be at operating temp, running (idle) and in gear (R) as this check is made. In my experience, purging the cooler of air means driving the car pretty hard to make sure the thermostat system is open (I've yet to be able to confidently do this on a lift). Then, without letting things cool down too much, you pull the plug with the car on level ground. The oil will be HOT and you need to be ready for some spillage if overfilled and have your DCT fluid and pump ready in case it’s underfilled. The process takes two people, one to do the check and one to hold the brakes while the car is in reverse and running. Be aware that the level tube does tend to fill with splash fluid, so when the plug’s first removed it’ll let a few ounces out regardless of the actual fluid level in the sump. Let it drain a second or two. If fluid continues to flow I’d say you’re good to put the plug back in. If not, add fluid. Use the proper Shell DCT-F3 fluid, which can be hard to find in the US.

Replacing the fluid is a bit trickier but still well within the capability of most given a few things to watch out for.
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