Gary Sharpe engine fiasco | FerrariChat
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Gary Sharpe engine fiasco

Discussion in '348/355' started by F355Bob, Nov 8, 2016.

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  1. F355Bob

    F355Bob Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    2,002
    Madison, Wisconsin
    #1 F355Bob, Nov 8, 2016
    I had Gary Sharpe do my engine 25000 miles ago. Engine has been off and on smoking at cold start up for 4-5 years. It would smoke for 10-30 secs and then never smoke again until another start up after sitting for 8 hours. My car is in for a major, last one 7 years ago. Belts are in perfect condition by the way. The heads are off and this is what we found. Car has steel guides in good condition. Valves are carboned up really bad on the exhaust. Sharpe said he would put in new Nikosil liners, a diamond finish to the bores with slightly larger pistons. All pistons, valves, combustion chamber thermal coated.

    Liners are not Nikosil
    No thermal coating anywhere
    Bores have a very, very coarse finish
    We have not measured the bores or the pistons to see if they any larger
    Rings are not seating allowing the cylinders to fill with oil and that is what is causing the smoking at startup. That hot oil also caused the exhaust valves to carbon up so badly.

    Car runs really strong which shows you can have a sick F355 engine and it will still run strong.

    Obviously Sharpe did not do all that he charged for and much will need to be redone. The kicker is Sharpe was highly recommended by two highly respected FChatters.
     
  2. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Nov 23, 2012
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    Dave Lelonek
    #2 Dave rocks, Nov 8, 2016
    Hey Bob,

    How do you know the liners have no Nikasil? FWIW - it's a very, very thin coating....
     
  3. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 13, 2004
    7,380
    Kzoo Michigan
    #3 phrogs, Nov 8, 2016
    Photos get photos and show us what your working with here.

    Also why are the rings leaking


    Obviosuly hes not been here for a while if Im remembering correctly so none of us newer owners know who he is or waht he had been known for was this enginefixer?
     
  4. F355Bob

    F355Bob Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    2,002
    Madison, Wisconsin
    #4 F355Bob, Nov 8, 2016
    I will have pictures in a few days.
     
  5. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2003
    6,097
    Bugtussle
    #5 ///Mike, Nov 8, 2016
    I am not understanding this.

    Sorry for your troubles, BTW.
     
  6. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    Dec 1, 2004
    7,816
    Redondo Beach, CA
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    Bruce Bogart
    #6 plugzit, Nov 8, 2016
    Yes, don't see how that would happen because of rings.
     
  7. F355Bob

    F355Bob Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    2,002
    Madison, Wisconsin
    #7 F355Bob, Nov 8, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  8. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Nov 23, 2012
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    #8 Dave rocks, Nov 8, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hey Bob,

    Those liners look OEM with Nikasil and the marks also look normal but I'm not there feeling them.

    Here is a pic from my 95 I'm rebuilding with original liners
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  9. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 18, 2008
    6,060
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
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    Grant
    #9 taz355, Nov 8, 2016
    I think gary used to be enginefxr or something. I had heard he did very good work as well in the late 2008 or so.

    I am pretty sure he still does engines just not ferrari. I also i think heard another bad story about him on here years ago, maybe from brian or someone that was well rspected.
     
  10. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    #10 taz355, Nov 8, 2016
    Bob I assume you did a proper break in because for nikasil I heard it was important.

    And sorry to hear about the problem hope it works out.
     
  11. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2004
    11,303
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    John Kreskovsky
    #11 johnk..., Nov 8, 2016
    Looks like they were scuffed up by hand. Still seems strange to me as smoke on start up is typical of valve seals. How would oil get up in the cylinders after the engine is shut off? How much oil was it using? Compression numbers?


    Also, is there a ridge in the cylinder walls? With nikasil liners you typically don't get much wear unless they are shot, but then you wouldn't see the scuff marks.
     
  12. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    #12 taz355, Nov 8, 2016
    John correct me if I am wrong but I thought on my old race engines with nikasil we used different ring composition, I thought actually harder rings because like you said nikasil was very hard. Back in the 90 s there was one place in the usa that did it well.
     
  13. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2003
    6,097
    Bugtussle
    #13 ///Mike, Nov 8, 2016
    I'm not seeing rough cylinder walls and I don't understand why you think the pics indicate that rings weren't sealing.

    What were your compression and leakdown numbers? Because I know no one would take apart one of these engines that was running without first performing compression and leakdown tests.

    This is not a horizontal engine-- bad rings do not cause smoking on startup. Bad guides and/or valve seals would be the more likely cause by far. But even that's not a slam dunk, which is why you perform compression and leakdown tests before disassembly.

    There's something not right here.
     
  14. coledoggy

    coledoggy Formula 3

    Apr 8, 2007
    2,185
    ole miss
    Full Name:
    todd
    #14 coledoggy, Nov 8, 2016
    He ****ed my engine up. Not a fan. If you see him, kick him in the nuts once for me too.
     
  15. F355Bob

    F355Bob Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    2,002
    Madison, Wisconsin
    #15 F355Bob, Nov 8, 2016
    John,

    I misspoke earlier, the cylinders are Nikasil. The seals and guides are good.
    What about this senario. What if one of my scavage pumps was not working or weak.
    The crank is emerged in oil at startup. As the car cranks the crankshaft churnes in oil but the pump is also putting oil into the tank. If it did not scavenge the oil fast enough out of the sump into the tank, the rings can't handle that volume, you get oil burning at startup. As oil leaves the sump, oil level stabilizes.
    I have thought this could be possible. What do you think?
     
  16. F355Bob

    F355Bob Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    2,002
    Madison, Wisconsin
    #16 F355Bob, Nov 8, 2016
    The motor went 2 months and 50 or 60 cold starts without smoking this summer.By cold starts, I mean with the engine off for at least 7-8 hrs. Never smokes accelerate or decel. Engine in for a major. Heads off to inspect guides and seals and clean valves of large deposits. Blow by system seems ok. Car really does not use much oil--quart every 1000.
     
  17. F355Bob

    F355Bob Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    2,002
    Madison, Wisconsin
    #17 F355Bob, Nov 8, 2016
    Todd,

    What did he do to your engine?
     
  18. coledoggy

    coledoggy Formula 3

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    #18 coledoggy, Nov 8, 2016
    Very long story that I really am probably not smart enough to articulate understandibly coherently in my own words unfortunately. But the short version is he did it twice and after it came back the second time it was thrown together very poorly. Now I get about 30 miles to the quart of oil burned. Blows smoke like a mosquito truck.
    Essentially I just drive it once a week so it doesn't sit up too much. Nathan Darby and I are going to be taking it apart soon to see just how bad it really is. Tired of spending money on it. No way I could ever sell it in the condition it is now, so I'm just going to put some sweat equity into it. Very pissed to say the least.
     
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  19. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    #19 johnk..., Nov 8, 2016
    So a puff of smoke on start up. No excess consumption. Car ran great. Why did you tear it apart?

    Back to do you know the compression numbers?
     
  20. F355Bob

    F355Bob Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    2,002
    Madison, Wisconsin
    #20 F355Bob, Nov 8, 2016
    More than just a puff. As I said earlier on cold start many times over the last 4 years the smoke would last 20-30 seconds and fill my whole street with smoke. Then there were times it did not smoke or had a puff. When it was in the shop last year to start the major, they had to push the car out of the shop to start it-- it would fill the whole shop with smoke. They couldn't start my major last year so brought it back to the shop a few weeks go.
     
  21. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,774
    #21 Mitch Alsup, Nov 8, 2016
    This is not indicative of anything majorly wrong in the engine.

    So, why did you take it apart?
     
  22. F355Bob

    F355Bob Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    2,002
    Madison, Wisconsin
    #22 F355Bob, Nov 8, 2016
    Look at previous posts. Look at Todd's post. Also too many Sharpe horror stories so good time to inspect engine when major was being done. Wanted to check guides and seals. Talking to one Ferrchat member had Sharpe do engine work but was so unhappy picked up the car before he finished. Last year Dave Helms had 6 or 7 Sharpe engines to rebuild in his shop. Wouldn't you feel better going through the engine to make sure it is right? It's pretty much my daily driver May- Nov. and used to get tracked before the smoking problem started.
     
  23. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2003
    6,097
    Bugtussle
    #23 ///Mike, Nov 8, 2016
    This makes no sense to me for a couple of reasons. But you could save a lot of conjecture with the compression and leakdown test results.

    I would submit to you that no competent tech would pull an engine exhibiting the symptoms that you described without first using the compression and leakdown test results to plan a course of action. I would be very, very concerned if this was not done. It's akin to doing exploratory surgery without the benefit of X-rays/MRI/etc.
     
  24. F355Bob

    F355Bob Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    2,002
    Madison, Wisconsin
    #24 F355Bob, Nov 8, 2016
    Looked up leakdown from 1 year ago on cold engine 8-10% across the board.
     
  25. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
    29,487
    socal
    #25 fatbillybob, Nov 8, 2016
    I was here during the GS years. He talked a good game and sounded like he knew what he was doing but he could not deliver. Fchaters started using him, then a sponsor iirc, and then the "crash and burn" as his results spoke louder than words. Obviously he is gone from here now. Fchat is a tough crowd. It takes consistency to be around here any length of time.
     
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