997.1 v 997.2

Yes!

I was originally looking for a 0.1, but happened to come across a 0.2 with the options that I wanted. Bit the bullet, and have no regrets.

IMS stuff is not as straightforward as you might expect. I think it's easily replaced in the 2005 models, but not so easy in the 2006 and later models.

997.2 has more power, but also lots of little stuff like LED lighting, better PCM (err, I think that's what it's called- i.e., radio, NAV, bluetooth connectivity, and so on).

Oil change is easier on the 997.2 (filter is right on top, like the 308 engines, vs on the bottom).

Finally, 997.2 has PDK (I would have been forced to get a tiptronic otherwise- needed something my wife could drive occasionally). If you are going that route, its definitely worth it. PDK is good. It can shift better than I could ever dream. For a classic or vintage car, manual is the way to go, but for modern, I think PDK beats a manual hands down.

 

997.2 motor is the 9A1 and is completely new including DFI.

 

Also Nav and entire infotainment is updated from the 997.1.

 

Dom has pretty much captured it. I'm biased, though, I own a 997.2 S, but in my opinion it is in the sweet spot of 911s, given the greater size and more cluttered interior of the 991 generation, but with more modern amenities compared to 997.1 and previous generations.

If the object is to get a great 911 at a great price, I would look into a 996 generation car, especially if you want a manual. They're much cheaper, in part thanks to the IMS scare, and then you can invest your leftover funds on upgrades, mods, maintenance and the like.

T

 

If you're getting a manual, I don't think there is a huge difference between 997.1 and 997.2. But if you want auto, Tip vs PDK is no contest.

A little while back I had a manual 996 and test drove a 2009 (997.2) Carrera PDK - without paddles. The 2009 felt like a Buick... solid, smooth, not real quick, and well, underwhelming. I couldn't wait to get back to my manual 996 C2- not super fast - but very fun.

Since then I've replaced my 996 with a 996 Turbo. Because the 996 just wasn't fast enough. It has a completely different engine with zero IMS issues - unlike 997.1s. These cars are very fast and super fun - even by today's standards. Oh yeah, and it was less expensive than a well-equiped Honda Accord.

 

It may be a little of more horsepower but the torque increase is tremendous.
Different driving experience, drive them back to back.

 

Another difference, albeit minor, that I discovered whilst researching these very same differences early last year lies in the C4S. The rear of a 997.2 C4S has a long red strip (lens?) which connects the two rear taillights, along the lines of the earlier 911s. The 997.1 C4S does not.

If I were back in the market, the .2 would likely be the way I would go for 3 reasons (in this order of importance):

1) PDK
2) IMS issue (and the long-term / resale benefits)
3) 385hp vs 355hp
3.5) ...the red strip - I do like it, and I would be looking for a C4S.

 

6-speed 997.2 GTS is the car to get.

 

I have a base 997.1 as a DD and it is fantastic. The rub that I see with the 997.2 is a lack of a e-brake lever (I know.. picky) and the DFI. Having a mini with the DFI, the DFI led to alot of carbon buildup on the intake plenum. Granted it was a turbo mini.. that and the high pressure fuel pump made me question the 997.2. IMS failure in the M97 engine is reduced to the M96 engine. I think either is a great car. 2005 model year I would avoid for the IMS issue.

 

Huh?

 

You may be thinking of the 991. The 997.2 an e-brake lever that is just like the 997.1.

I own a 2009 997.2 and it has been a great car so far. I wouldn't steer clear of the 997.1 by any means, but I went 997.2 primarily for the upgraded infotainment and the slight increase in horsepower. The reduced chance of IMS failure added to the allure of the 997.2, but I know enough people with 997.1s that have many years/miles on them with no problem.

 

I did a bunch of research about 5 months ago on 997s. I was originally looking at an 08 997, but came across a bunch of references that indicate growing occurrences of cylinder scoring in the M97 engines. Here's a link to an often referenced analysis document by the Porsche engine builder Hartech: http://hartech.org/images/downloads/Hartech%20Engine%20Guide%20(interim).pdf

Because of that concern, and the aforementioned advantages of the .2 version, I had decided to limit my search to a 997.2. (Still on hold)

 

If you go 997.1 you want GT3 or turbo to avoid IMS issue. I ordered and still own a 997.1 TT with tip (bad knees and have other MT) and drove a 997.2 C4S PDK for a few weeks in Germany, Austria & Swiss Alps. The 997.2 was just a all round great car. One of the guys on the trip immediately came back to the US and got a 997.2 C2S with PDK and still has it.

Advantages of 997.2 - direct injection with new motor, no IMS, non S has similar power to former S, PDK is a great transmission, new nav system is better, blue tooth available. All above worth the extra $$$ IMO. I talked my son into 997.2 C2 PDK and he loves the car and his wife can drive it but not sure the last item is an advantage. LOL

 

From 2006 on you get the larger IMS bearing that seem to rarely blow up. However, you still have the RMS problem, and (worse) possible cylinder scoring.

That's all not very impressive if you compare to -say- BMW. However, the newer DI engines have not revealed any systematic problems.

Early PDK is a lot rougher than the current one. Better than tip, not as good as today's.

The rear on the .2 looks significantly better.

For my taste the price on 997.2 cars is too close to early 991 models.

 

^^^^ THIS ^^^^

The problem with the 2006+ 997.1's, as I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong), is that you can't replace the IMS without fully disassembling the motor. So you can't (in practical terms) proactively replace the IMS as maintenance on a 997.1 (and reactively replacing it is even worse ). If you are really concerned about IMS, it might be better to either move up to a 997.2 (with no IMS) or down to a 996 (where IMS can affordably be replaced as maintenance every 50k miles). Or, as others have said, get a Turbo 996 or 997 with no IMS.

The 2006+ 997.1 IMS is very robust, so it's probably a lot less of a real issue than the hysteria and much less of an issue than it was on the 996, but the perception will always hold down resale value down and, as the 997.1's get older, it's possible it might become more of a real issue.

 

With the small IMS bearing that was used from 2000 and in some cars in 2005 (including some 997.1 cars) you get a really bad, small, single-row IMSB. Changing it to a better one only requires dropping the transmission (not the engine) and the area is the same that you access to refresh the clutch. So you can save some effort by doing both.

Some 2005 and all 2006-2008 cars have a much larger bearing that has very few known failures (the engines still die of the other M97 problems). You can, however, not change it without taking the engine out and splitting the engine case, which it isn't made for.

Some people throw around statements that the larger IMS bearing is bad for continued high-RPM use (track) because of the greater centrifugal forces. I am not convinced of that.

 

My understanding from my reasearch (when I was looking for my son) is that the after market bearings are a total "fix" and the dealer repair is just a new OEM bearing which is really not a fix at all. Look at the Panorama magazine there usually ads for the after market bearings.

That said the problem is just on about 8% of the cars but no fun if you are in the 8%.

I still think the 997.2 perhaps 2010 or later is the better alternative because a later edition of PDK (1st year the TT used PDK as prior version not strong enough) plus other upgrades on the gen 2 are worth it budget permitting IMO.

 

8% blown up engines are probably mostly in that middle zone of production with the really bad one. That would mean 1/3rd or so of those cars blew up.

I can confirm that a 2009 PDK drives a lot less smooth than today's do. Not sure when they got better by how much. I am not aware of the naturally aspirated cars crushing them.

My main objection to the 997 is that the price is too close to what 991 cars trade at this year. Not right now but earlier this year.

 

I haven't driven a 2009 but my son has a 2010 I have driven and it seems pretty good and I drove a 2011 for a couple of weeks and it was really good.

I haven't priced 997.2 vs. 991 so have no comment on price comparison. A year and half ago my son got his 2010 C2 with PDK base car w/ 40k on the clock for $43k from a local Audi dealer. It was a CA owned & driven car in nice condition about medium options nothing special. So not sure if you can get a 991 for close to that kind of $$$ ?

 

No, but that is a very low price. You can easily pay $40k for early 997, $50k for late 997.1 cars and $60k for 997.2.

 

Yea but usually lower miles and more highly optioned 997.2 go for the more money. Also his is black/tan so not everyone in CA wants a black car but there are plenty of black Pcars in So CA. Also we were looking for about 6 months before we found his car. Your are right it was a pretty good deal all considered - it is his first Pcar and he loves it.

 

I'm pretty sure the 8 percent figure came from the data used in the IMS lawsuit against Porsche and that 8% only applies to 996's with the single row IMS bearing. I think this mostly includes the 996.2 with the 3.6 liter engine and some of the late 996.1 3.4 engines. I think the same data showed a 1% failure on the early 996.1's with dual row. I would imagine that the failure rate for the post 2006 997.1's is very low -- presumably lower than the 996.1 since the 997.1 has a larger and more robust (but not (easily) replaceable) IMS bearing.