So just getting back into F1 for the first time in years...

Take an old Horsepower track and put the modern Merc alongside the 2005 Ferrari, and the Merc would win due to Torque even if the older cars had more HP. Torque determines how fast one gets out of corners, HP determines the speed at which you hit the brakes.

Just like Ducati in motorcycle racing, TQ wins races, HP sells vehicles.

 

There is quite a range of power in the later configs you mentioned, more like 650 -1000 BHP NA, and that power is available all the time, not just for a couple of quali laps. The turbo monsters raced with around 700 - 900 HP most of the time, but the advances in aero, semi-auto tranny, tire and chassis tech would have made a giant difference regardless. Imagine how much easier the old monsters would've been to tame with traction control and light speed paddle shifting!

 

More important, electric motor torque is instantaneous and at full power at 0 rpm. I'd be completely onboard with the current "power units" if they would just make them sound exciting!!

Listen to a race prepped F40 or Porsche 935 to remember how exciting a turbo engine can sound.

 

Alonso has certainly complained about the current cars being far less exciting and rewarding to drive...

 

If hamilton or rosberg were put into the the manor or Force India cars, would they ever reach the podium? if there is no argument the answer is no, then it really is an engineering battle and the rules should promote greater competition rather than ensuring there are only a couple of cars that can truly compete.

 

Thanks for the info Bas, what kind of hp do you think the engine itself makes without turbo/electrics? Ive heard 550 and if that's true, that's amazing for a NA 1.5L. I don't have anything to back that up, just a bunch of my F1 buddy's BSing around beers.

 

When first introduced, the turbo V-6s were only making about 600 HP WITH turbo + 160 HP from KERS, which is not up to the title "pinnacle of motorsport" when you had nearly 900 HP from the V-8s and 1000 HP from the V-10s NA only. So perhaps the current cars are making ~800 HP with turbo now + KERS? The current total hybrid system power of about 1,000 HP is more like it, although apparently they'll have even more next year (along with more weight...).

 

Simple story is: the mercedes of the last 3 years has been the most dominant car in the history of the sport and its not even close. Nothing Ferraris drivers could do about that. The manor drivers would coast to titles if they were in a merc

 

The V10 cars hold almost every lap record. Maybe next year with the new regs the V6s will be faster in outight speed

 

It's always been about the cars which is why the only real opponent they have is their team mate

 

There are many of us that don't need....nay, not even....want another Indycar....

 

@ ducrob

F1 engines are limited to 1600 cc capacity since 2014.

1500 cc engines were used back in:-
1947 - 1953
1961 - 1965
1966 - 1988

Technical specifications / BHP outputs are keep secret by the engine makers, hence a lot of speculation about true outputs.

 

Sans turbo/electric, the 1.6 V6 would do around 500ish to 550. Remember they're limited to 15K rpm. If they still have to last as many races as now It'd be a decent chunk less than that by limiting rpm to ~12K in race trim.

10% more aero and massive tires will be the big help in extra speed.

 

Wow....my friends were accurate with their guess! I've always wanted to see what the insides of a blown up v10 looked like. Tom Walkinshaws (I know, he's deceased) nephew is a friend of mine. He worked for a year with his British touring car operation...Volvo I think. His uncle only spoke to him twice. Says Toms son is a spoiled ****. Oh....my friend is also Canadian, his mother asked his uncle to give him a job.....not a close family.

 

Huh???

BTW, what's the price of a piano in Zimbabwe again....???



"Those were the days my friends. We thought they'd never end..."

lorenzobandini

 

The guy that quoted horsepower figures to me over beers regarding 1.6 NA engines is Tom Walkinshaws nephew....is my last post confusing? Sorry for sharing that with you. I also shared some of his opinions....are you offended? Lighten up buttercup, it's a forum.

 

I sure if your into the history of F1, Tom Walkinshaws bought Arrows F1....remember Damon Hill almost won a race with the Yamaha engined car? The friend that showed me pics/told the stories said that he wasn't even allowed to go into the building TWR F1 race building....he just did the strip/rebuilds after the touring car races. Pianos/Zimbabwe....very nice, you been there?

 

Canceled my subscription to the NBC Sports channel because I realized I wasn't watching the races any more.

Cars are ugly, sound like crap, many of the locations are ridiculous (hello, a South Korean farming village?) and empty (China), and Ferrari sucks and is run by a lame ass bean counter.

No thank you, I can fill the time with a lot more rewarding things.

Good luck to the new ownership group. It's going to take a lot more changes than just having a bigger presence on Twitter.

-F

 

Offended about what? Buttercup?

Let's get together and discuss "buttercup", d-head.

 

Pretty angry guy huh? These forums are full of colourful people and a great knowledge base. There is also a common thread with most of the people here, hence a lot of entertaining stories, advice and observations. I shared something regarding f1, I learned something and will share what I've learned with others. Having said all this, you have had nothing but an aggressive tone, perhaps I'm wrong? If I offended you with the buttercup comment, I sincerely apologize. It was not meant in any negative context, it's something that is said a lot in my profession when tempers are running hot, it's meant to get a chuckle and diffuse tense situations. I work amongst young, angry humans everyday that could easily kick my ass and they "get" this comment. Hope you have a great day.

 

(a) Not 't'all.
(b) Yup.
(c) Not offended in the least; 'amused more appropriate.
(d) Not young myself, but still pretty fit (physically, not so much mentally....what were we discussing? )
(e) You also.

It all started when I just didn't get the connection of talking F1 to the personal lives of the Walkinshaws'. 'Thought you were gonna come back with sumpin' like "Ooooopppsss, 'wrong thread..."

All's quite well (good?). I post on boards to have fun. not to fight.

(edit: admittedly, I've been slacking on my use of smilies lately. )

 

Ha!!! Revved me up you ass hole! have a good night!

 

That's debatable.
You don't need to go deaf to enjoy the sound.

1) The most I heard in Q was about 1,300, with the BMW in 1982. An interesting side note
is that BMW 4 cyl turbo - without the turbo - made 91 horse. Yes, 91 horse.

2) I have been saying that since about 2009 or so.

3) As long as a gov't backs a race, they will have one. Look at Canada and all the
countries in Asia. And this is why the USA loses money on it, the smart money in
the USA keeps it in their pockets. Or should.

 

F1 has "died" at least a dozen times over the last few years.
Hybrids...
Team orders...
No team orders...
DRS....
Turbos...(Take out the earplugs Einstein)

Its about to "die" once again with the HALO structure.
Nothing new here.


Also its ALL about the car.
Nothing new here either.

 

The 1986 Williams-Honda FW11 Turbo pushed out 1400 BHP @ 12000 RPM, so much so that in 1987 the FIA regulations introduced a Wastegate, with boost pressure limited to 4 bars in Qualification, for 1500 cc turbocharged engines.