The Myth of Tracking a Ferrari 458/488

Speaking of tracking, didn't Ferrari just unveil the 488 Challenge?

 

Yes they did. But it's not a car for casual tracking once in a while. It is a race car which requires a team to run and maintain it. Of course you can have it and choose not to race it, but you will need parts, equipment and crew if you want to use it on tracks.

 

for some reason two points of the original post keep getting missed:

1.

 

I agree 100%.

Whether its the best, the fastest or any metric you want to use, it's still an absolutes blast to spend the day at the track wit any Ferrari. You don't have to be the greatest driver in the fastest car to have a blast at the track.

I love driving my Ferrari around town. I love driving it as fast as I can on the track. I'm not tryig to win when I'm driving around town, I'm not trying to win when I'm at the track.

 

For some reason two points of the original post keep getting missed:
1. a purpose built track car, by the numbers, is a much more high performance car than any stock car - speciale, 675, LaF, etc. A 458 Challenge Series car is an incredible bargain and in it is capable of blowing away cars that are radically more expensive within the Ferrari and other stable, not to mention a stock 458. a 458 CS is incredibly high value for those interested in not just "puttering" around on track day but truly pushing to the extremes and achieve great performance.
2. to go on and on about performance numbers off the track is largely irrelevant given the amazing capabilities of cars of even over the last 6 or 7 years. to truly feel performance driven numbers on the road you have to push the car to unsafe and police/deer/traffic prevalent roads - which is not practical, and least not consistently. therefore, to buy a car at elite levels based on things other than looks, sound, etc. is somewhat irrational and result of mystique / marketing / ego.

 

Indeed. But that's not a street legal car, it's a car for the Challenge series.

 

I for one still don't get what the point here is. We all know that our cars are not race cars. And as someone said, where has Ferrari claimed such a thing? They are fun on a track - the Spider included. I think you're the one missing the point, especially since you're trying to bring rationality into buying a Ferrari. There's nothing rational about it. It about emotion and passion.

As for numbers, again I don't follow you. Sure, we all know that the exact numbers don't matter much. What does matter is that in some places you can have fun with the performance on tap. This goes from everything from levels of grip, acceleration to top speed. Remember that some of us here in Europe, have easy access to the Autobahn, and there we can use what ever top speed is available - just like you can get some amazing drives through some of the mountains on this continent. Can you drive a 458 or 488 hard enough so that a car with less performance can't keep up on say Route Napoleon? Oh yes, easily.

Again, I fail to see the point here. I may be wrong, but are you:
A) Trying to point out that Ferrari is telling customers that their cars are something they're not? If so where and how.
B) Are you saying that Ferrari owners are so ignorant that they don't know what their cars are and are not, thus thinking they're driving pure bred race cars? If so, how do you come to that conclusion. Just to be clear, I'm not saying that these are your thoughts or intention. BUT, the tone of this thread is to me at least, somewhat of an unfair put-down of both the cars and their owners.

And lastly, in short easy-to-understand terms. What exactly is the "Myth" you're talking about?

 

we are not on the same page. neither of your points reflect the post. not just in your post but in others there seems to be hyper sensitivity and quick to extrapolate conclusion well beyond what is being said. the restated points in 30 above should be taken at face value - nothing more - and speak to obsessions in many other threads with performance numbers when evaluating cars in non track settings that are much less relevant that qualitative factors in evaluating cars. Ease up - no one is putting you or others down - just pointing out something that is apparently less obvious than is prevalent in many other threads.

 

The crib notes version:
Purpose built track cars are better on the track then street cars.
Bragging about street car lap times (C&D Lightning Lap etc) is to be avoided, as it perpetuates the marketing that Ferrari/Porsche/Lamborghini/McLaren/Corvette have shamelessly hoodwinked us with and shows unsightly ego, etc.

 

Really? I love all the different media lap time comparos. And I like rooting for my fav cars to win too. Just like I do for my fav sport teams. No one has hoodwinked me

 

Ive taken my 458 on the track and after 1 day the tires were toast, and at high speeds the front felt too light. If you look at the 458 Brochure Book it shows the car on the track, but I think these are really road sports cars that are better than most cars on the track, but are not really track cars. I think Ferrari is selling this "myth", knowing most owners are not serious about tracking.

 

I've had fun with the speciale on track.

What consumers want today (judging by ferrari chat members postings) is probably going to change in the future.

All these kids play forza, gran turismo, etc., watch youtube tracking videos and performance comparisons. This next generation of buyers are very in tune to how these cars perform and it will factor into their decisions of which cars to buy.

 

^this

 

Are you for real or are you just trolling? But most likely you have zero knowledge about tracking/racing cars on a track.

If you are serious about what you wrote, you should know that your street tires will be toast on a track after 1 day of driving. Beginners will eat the tires/brakes even after a few laps. Even dedicated race cars will go through 2-3 sets of race tires in a full day of testing. What did you expect? You will drive the car near its limits for day and the tires will be fine? it won't happen anywhere, not with the current tire technology.

Just because Ferrari showed their cars on track, doesn't make them they are real track/race cars. Nobody officially claims that. They are being sold as street legal cars which should be driven on legal roads and can be tracked occasionally. It can be done and they perform very well against other street cars when driven and maintained properly. (see my post above)

A proper track or race car will of course will be much faster, if you want but then they can not be used on streets. Even a street legal track car with its slick/semi-slick tires, racing brake pads, track oriented wheel geometry is not safe to use on normal roads. If all these will be OK for normal driving then that car is not a real track car. So, you can't have one car which is fine for both ways.

So, nobody is fooling anyone or selling a myth, because it can't be done if you know the facts

 

Aren't you an arrogant one, and full of yourself?

Yes, I have been on the track and have taken racing courses. I am referring to Ferrari marketing strategy, and be careful who you insult or call a troll.

 

I for one couldn't care less about the car's track worthiness. I've tracked a variety of cars many times (some super, some not so super), but at this point an occasional casual ride along the scenic Delaware River with my wife in a magnificent Ferrari is excitement enough. A recent, somewhat serious crash in another supercar dissolved my appetite for speed. I'm just happy as a clam to be alive and to own a breathtakingly beautiful 458 Italia.

 

If you had really been on track and taken racing courses, you should know the differences between a street car and a dedicated track/race car. Just because Ferrari put a photo of the car on a track doesn't make it a dedicated track car? Are people really that naïve to believe that they can take that car and start to "time attack" or race??? Plus, Ferrari never claimed that their road cars are made specifically to be driven tracks. If you had a chance to read the manual they clearly state that these cars are not made for track use. Even a 458 Speciale manual says: (page. 5)
"While this vehicle has features that may be used on the track, it is a road-going vehicle and it is not suitable for continuous use on the track"

So if you drive your 458 all day or even a few hours on track, you will off course kill your tires, brakes, etc. What were you really expecting??? You are the one who should be careful before making unfounded accusations.

 

I didn't get that from his posting.

Plenty and probably even more HPDE events at race tracks across USA where people bring street cars rather then race cars.

Your answer is in "not suitable for CONTINOUS use on the track". Of course one should be able to track a street ferrari like tracking any other street car. (no one is going to race it...they will track it)

How do you think it would go over in all these journalistic tests if they said that Ferrari wouldn't supply a car because it is not built for a track and we will just do a spirited drive?

 

Ferrari has always marketed themselves as a company that builds race cars. That technology (so called technology) derived from their race cars, supposedly ends up in their street production machines. I supposed this could result in buyers of Ferrari cars thinking their new 458/488 should be a very capable track machine out of the box.

I understand it and the OP has a point.

 

Of course, it is a very capable car on track compared to many other "STREET CARS". I have the second best time at Istanbul Park circuit (former F-1 track) with my Speciale, the best time belongs to my car but driven by my pro-Italian coach. In the right hands and with correct setup it is seconds faster than many modified Porsche Turbo's, GTRs, Lambos and many other track oriented cars.

What the OP and some others say is a 458 Challenge or a similar purpose built track car is better suited for track and they are naively claiming they are misled by Ferrari. Of course a purpose built machine will perform than any other general purpose built street car. They will be way faster than any street car driven by the same driver, but as I tried to explain earlier, those cars are either not street legal or can not be driven safely on roads. If those who can't understand the difference than they probably shouldn't be driving a car like Ferrari.

 

The following from JimmyB in post 34 summarize the view well. MuratC, the point is not comparing track vs. street.

The crib notes version:
Purpose built track cars are better on the track then street cars.
Bragging about street car lap times (C&D Lightning Lap etc) is to be avoided, as it perpetuates the marketing that Ferrari/Porsche/Lamborghini/McLaren/Corvette have shamelessly hoodwinked us with and shows unsightly ego, etc.

 

Without buying into the debate as to whether one can or should race a 458 or whether they are sold ready to be raced (from time to time), in spite of what disclaimers Ferrari might put into its booklets (which of course are checked by its lawyers), from a marketing perspective it doesn't hurt that the cruise control bears the words "Pit speed" under it or that the manettino has a selection marked "Race" and that the settings "CT OFF" and "ESC OFF" are described as intended for track use.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

LOL....track focused Cayman, whatever that means. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I've owned a few sports cars, track cars including Ferrari Challenge,Porsche, Corvette, XK Jaguars, Saab Viggen, endless Mazdas, and so on. I have loved them all and equally hated them at times. Each one has something to offer....something to complain about. When someone starts dissing a brand, a model, they have an ax to grind. It's an opinion, that's all.... like a certain orifice we humans have.

 

I should add : I took a 2018 stock Jeep Limited on the Rubicon. I thrashed it a bit. I was prepared for that. No one needed to tell me that the Jeep commercials on TV were not true. LOL.

The OP sounds like the kid buying a cereal box for the toy pistol and expressing disappointment that the toy is not the real deal.....then finding the need to tell everyone who will listen. Grow up.

 

Holy thread revival Batman! ;-)

The way I see these cars...street Ferrari Porsche etc...is you can take them to a track day every once in a while and enjoy them. They are not race cars...in terms of safety and reliability....but you can have fun with them.

Ive been tracking street cars since 2005 mostly all Porsche and have had a great time learning how to really drive, making a lot of friends and I have so many nice memories. Hopefully later this year I can take my 488 to the track....my plan is to do so instructing, I really do enjoy teaching others and seeing them improve and I will take the 488 out for some laps in a couple sessions.