The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Lol. No wonder Rob posts here once every now and then

It will never stop. Vincent, and others, will keep posting the same emotional thing while not actually reading others replies ...
Pete

 

and no one has once offered to even purchase my jesus challace for $1 yet.

 

Well MuiraSv (Steve) seemed pretty agressive tlll now. Seems too quiet for a personality like steve,,,,,,,,,maybe he was told not too post by?????????

 

MiuraSV's work is done.

Nothing more to state or convey.

Some people still wish to speculate as to the frame still existing but as for being in the reassigned 0846?

It has to be zero.

Case closed.

 

I am not posting saying that it is 0846, nor have I ever said that it without doubt is.

I post as the story of Piper's hand in the P4 story is interesting and one with a lot of holes that should be filled before it is too late.

One of those being the Massini hole, just because the likelihood of 0846 ending up in Jim's chassis is a longshot as I have said before, with an event like that, I for one am curious of what exactly he saw that day? Could it have been 0846? And if so, Where is it now?

Even if the day comes that Jim's chassis is 100% factually proven that 0% of 0846 could be in the construction, I still find the Piper story interesting. It may come as a shock, and once again, I have stated this numerous times before, I find the whole Piper story interesting. Yes, I found what he did to 0858 to be an abomination and also feel the court case with his porsche to be somewhat unappealing, with that being said, I quite admire David Piper, to me he is one to be looked up to as a real car guy, they really don't make them like Pipes anymore, a guy who wheeled and dealed, cut and welded, and really did anything he could to go racing. I have said it many times before, I would have been glad to live Pipes life and quite admire him for the gumption he had to keep spinning tires.

For me, I would like to know more about Pipers hand in building the cars he did regardless of if Jim's car is 100% replica or not. I find it quite an interesting time where guys like Tom Mead and David Piper made deals with Il Commendatore himself for the castaway parts and brought the obsolete back to life. Quite simply, days like that are gone an I personally feel it is a shame to let this piece of history go down the tubes while there is still time to learn more.

I guess for you guys it is all about some argument that requires "burden of proof", which I feel is as stupid as it gets, this is an internet forum, not a court of law. For me this is not about who is right and who is wrong? No one here has any skin in the game, Jim did not fraudulently sell the car to someone, there is not one iota of negligence/deceit here, he was just a guy who thought there were signs that his car was something it most likely isn't, yet the posters here came after him with claws?

So no. I am not here trying to say I know that it is 0846, I am here wondering about the missing pieces in an interesting story, which most of you don't seem to care about? Or to be frank, seem to know anything about? It seems all most care about is who is right versus who is wrong.

 

One of the biggest hole? Are you serious? Miura documented everything and this is something else that what Mr. Massini believed to have seen in 1977 without taking pictures. He was then twenty years old and collecting Porsche models. However, the relevant issue here is not Mr. Massini’s memory or what he had seen or not, but that DP0003 is upon Miura’s documentation a 100% replica without any remains of the late 0846’s frame. DP0003 and the late 0846 are two completly different things.

 

I don't get your point? I am not speaking about Miura or JG's chassis in any way? Are you trying to say that due to Marcel being twenty years old he was unqualified to see what he saw? You know, cause your average uninterested and unaware twenty year old, that is not obsessed with Ferrari's, just randomly find themselves hanging around obscure chassis that are being shipped.

I'd like you to propose that to him and see what he thinks about it? Wow.

 

Maybe compiling the photos origins, to put the final nail in the coffin.

 

Does Rob pay you by the post?

 

lol...hello pot? This is the kettle, yeah, you're black.

 

Hey, I'm just trying to find out if someone has a better deal than me.

 

Ha!

 

I understand what VV was saying fwiw.

I too see all available evidence pointing to JG's car not likely to be the original 0846. (Others can use stronger words if they feel comfortable)

But, there is another "story" here is an interesting mystery..."what happened to the physical remains of the original 0846"? With a subplot of what was that frame Marcel saw? And where were all of the DP chassis' sourced? Some of us think that an interesting story too. But, alas, answers and evidence don't appear to be coming. Meh, still interesting.

 

Start another thread then as it has nothing to do with Jim's car.
Pete

 

Well, you're wrong. If you do indeed believe that Piper built Jim's chassis from scratch, how Piper built these chassis has everything to do with Jim's chassis, and Piper importing the Massini chassis is part of that story. If that chassis was not 0846, then it would most likely be one of the Piper built chassis, no? And if it indeed was a Piper built chassis, it could have been Jim's. And even if not Jim's it is part of the story of how Jim's chassis may have been manufactured.

And if it was not a Piper built chassis, then which chassis was it exactly?

My guess is 0846. If that were true, then where is 0846 today?

 

Well there are two people still alive who can tell you everything you want to know about that event, David Piper and Marcel Massini.

As you have such a burning desire to know all about the circumstances surrounding it then they are both easy enough for you to contact directly.

Once you have then pop back on here and update us all.

 

Marcel has already said about what occurred on multiple occasions - he doesn't need pestering any further, his story is a matter of public record.
Marcel is a historian and we all know the history here.

Built in 1966 as a P3
Converted to P4 specs in 1967
Caught fire at LeMans and car stripped of useable parts, chassis thrown on scrapheap and noted in factory chassis register.
1977 a car is shown to Marcel by Piper that he was clearly suggesting is the same one.
2000 JG buys a car from Piper that's said to be a replica, but after investigation JG claims contains "some" parts of the chassis.

thats it - there is no magic bullet - MM cant say categorically what Jims car is or what he saw any further that he already has.


Piper however is another matter - lots of oddities to his story (what little he actually says)
given permission to build one continuation car by Enzo - actually builds 4 of them
claims to own #0846 ten yrs after its supposedly scrapped
refuses to put the record straight re the 1977 sighting
but he isnt saying anything more - and when questioned his wife puts a stop to the conversation.

 

Your "statement of fact" is flawed. If only you would make actual efforts at research you might be able to understand this.

 

Nick, you signed in as Chaos to answer on behalf of VanGool?!

One and the same? never in the same room at the same time lol.

 

its only flawed because you say so - yet again you offer no proof, no evidence, no actual argument or debate.

just a blanket statement by the great Jeff Kennedy (who ?????) who claims he is right and god help anyone who dares suggest otherwise - but never offers any hint or shred of evidence to support his statements.

so come on use your supposed great intellect and research skills and post something useful - show us where or which points i'm wrong in.

a week or so ago you questioned where I live and didnt believe my location - I proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that you were talking crap.
Now your suggesting i'm someone else.

i've been a member here for over 12 yrs and have over 2300 posts

 

Damn, who knew Chuck Norris had a side kick.

 

I think he goes by the name of "Walker... or Texas Ranger" Son of the famous race car driver Ricky Bobby (God I love that movie)

 

So I have a question... I can't quite remember but it has been recently brought up... Has Piper ever claimed to own the remnants of 0846?

 

Not that I'm aware of.

If anything he has probably said the exact opposite, that he does not possess them at all and never did, but all of this is just a guess.

When the Tom Meade story came out, El Wayne had stated his belief that he felt there was probably little truth to it and that Meade was probably just telling a story to stay relevant.

While I respect El Wayne's opinion on this, as he is probably pretty savy on Meade, I have to wonder what other people think of Meade and if he would fabricate this tale just to stay relevant. I mean, we all know Meade was a known fabricator, but did that go beyond cars? And into storytelling?

Are there pieces of the Meade tale that would help shed some light on the Massini sighting?

Does anyone have any pictures of Meades shop back in the day? It was rumored that the 0846 chassis sat out back for years.

Could the Massini Sighting have been one of the Piper built frames?