Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Very interesting. Thank you, man!

 

You do realized that fact alone is gonna tick Mycroft off about the P1 sliding around in a corner exit right?

Everyone and their 2 day old baby knows that putting down 900HP effectively on 2 narrow rear wheel is impossible. But seems like Mycroft just doesn't get it.

 

Well I can say that my experience with p1 at Laguna seca mirrors motor trend test (with regards to wheel spin out of 11, front straight and going over the crest towards turn 1I. probably adjusted to getting out of corners slower at a different track and didn't experience it (more due to my adjustment then anything else)

I always try to hedge from my experiences ...because I'm not a pro or anything close to that.


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You do realized the 918 has a more powerful brakes right?

P1 can achieve higher top speed on straights eventually, but with weaker brakes it will also have to brake earlier.

918 gets up to it's lower terminal speed earlier, but with a more powerful brake system it can brake later simply because it can maintain that speed longer.

In simple words, the 918 puts away from corner exits, gets to terminal speed early, maintain that speed while a P1 falls behind on corner exit, takes longer to reach it's higher terminal speed, start catching up with the speed difference, but then had to give up all the gains because it has to brake earlier than a 918.

That, in a nut shell, is how a 918 can beat a P1.

All about covering the area under the curve faster. Simple race car dynamics. That any race engineers or racers will understands.

 

And Mycroft doesn't recognizes personal experiences, he is a typical internet racer, whatever he reads on the internet has to be true, it's doesn't matter if real owners driving their own cars that provides the information.

He will say you are a **** driver who doesn't know how to use a P1 properly. A proper driver won't get wheel speed off any corner even if they floor the damn thing before apex.

He won't care if any information is contradicting to what he wants to post. I just came off the Portimao race track 3 weeks ago spending 3 days driving 918 and GT3RS back to back to back. And Cup cars too. But it doesn't matter, he will always find a way to discredit any real world info to fit his own dream world.

 

Hammond is not-believable, just like Chris Harris, when whatever they are saying doesn't matches what Mycroft is preaching.

 

There are plenty of pictures of P1 wearing Corsas too.

So those pictures floating around are fake? Cause in your mind P1 only wears Trofeo Rs.

One static image of something doesn't mean anything.

That clip can be shot when the cars rolled in.

You do realize there is a clip of a tire machine running in the background mounting tires. What makes you so sure that those Cup2s didn't get dismounted and a set of Crosas mounted back on?

Cause if that was indeed the case, your whole argument falls apart again, like any simple argument you have every posted in the history of the internet.

 

Hmm, dude, you just shot yourself in the foot again. AGAIN.

Isn't this the same argument you were clinging to when you trying to argue with me about what AP said about the tires in the GT3RS, 918 and the GT3?

So now you are adjusting your standard just so it will fit your own argument?

The hole you dug for yourself is soooooo deep now, it's past the centre point of the Earth, you might as well keep digging to come out the other side instead of climbing back out.

 

According to David Donohue, who is the one that drove the 918 there, which is btw the press car that he has been driving up and down and across the country to try and sell the 918 back then, which has a ton of hard miles everywhere, highway, city, track, you named it, the 918 did ONE session in the morning, the very first session, which is the slower time slot btw, then they waiting all day for the P1 to try and beat the time, which the P1 failed miserably.

It doesn't matter what the crew tweaked, the P1 simply does't have it.

It was comical that day at Laguna Seca, everyone simply wait around all day doing absolutely nothing trying to wait for that mythical P1 that Ron Dennis promised to show up, it didn't.

 

He is right, what do I know. My own car sits so far away, like across my driveway on the other side of the lot from my bedroom window. AP, FSW knows nothing about the car, Marc Lieb, Walter Rohrl, Matthias Hoffsummer, Timo Bernard, Brandon Hartley, Mark Webber all know knows nothing about driving cars. They are only my driving coaches so obviously I should have asked for a better one, say Chris Goodwood, or Traynor, or Chris Harris, who is btw only good when he is showing the P1 winning and not when he said Trofeo Rs are stickier faster tires than Cup2s.

Between my own 918 and Porsche's 918s, I only did about 1000km on tracks in 4 different circuits around the world in the last 12 months. Portimao, Paul Ricard, 2 other tracks local to me. Also heading to Hockenheim next May and Paul Ricard again in November.

His internet information is much more accurate than mine. I mean, it's on the internet, it HAS to be true!!! 3rd hand knowledge is always more accurate than 1st hadn't knowledge.

 

Did you not see the complete data? I did. Whatever you saw are stuff that some people wanted to published. Like Traynor who doesn't want the P1 to look that badly. I saw the WHOLE raw data, not just the stuff that a certain someone decided to published.

So why pick the 2nd lap? Not the fastest lap? Or the out lap? Or the 2nd fastest lap? Or the lap where they stop for pictures? Or the other lap where they did the filming? How about the lap they stopped for lunch? Or the recharging lap both cars did?

The P1 was over 5 seconds slower on the in lap. So by your logic, the P1 is over 5 seconds slower than the 918 now in Laguna Seca now isn't it?

You want to cherry pick laps, I can certainly do the same thing.

We can play this game all day long and you will still lose.

 

Why get so emotional and so combative though?

I've only been following this thread over the last couple of weeks.

I'd say that I'm a lot smarter and more aware now then I was. I'd say that a lot more of the silent followers are probably more educated about p1 and 918 and a lot of that has to do with lieven. You don't need to agree with him but he did bring up some good discussion points.

Note: although I own a P1 (own ferrari's and porsche's too); I don't take any great pride in a car that I just dropped a check for. Let's just enjoy the cars and take away that there is a lot of variables in how cars can perform and that there is a lot more to tracking/lapping then what is selectively shown in the "entertainment videos".

On another note; who has some data on the laferrari -. Only personal knowledge I have is of a brake fade issue and sport cup 2's are better than the corsas (based on my conversation with buckblu when we went tracking together).

 

Hey, owners of the cars are more reasonable than keyboard warriors and internet experts. Who would have thought?

 

I'm convinced they barely get driven. Which is quite a shame. I guess even for the very wealthy it's difficult to justify using something that relatively unused is worth 3x it's MSRP.

 

Well Mycroft has been trolling the internet for the last couple years basically. He works for McLaren, so he doesn't like to see the P1 loses anything anywhere. He would sign up for multiple handles and multiple forums just so he can 'argue' why the P1 lose this test or that test, or that this test is flawed or that test is valid cause it fits his narrative.

There are plenty of educated owners, or even non-owners, that posted valid stuff from either perspective, but Mycroft being Mycroft, he only pick and choose whatever he likes to hear and rehash those stuff. it won't matter how many tests, or how controlled the conditions are, if the P1 doesn't comes out on top, Mycroft WILL dispute the results.

No one ever said a 918 is the be all end all car, hell it is quite well known that it doesn't do well at the top end of the performance spectrum, and it is quite clinical to drive, very German like efficiency. The only great thing about it is the great exhaust note at any speed cause of the top exit exhaust.

It's actually fun to engage him whenever I or anyone else has free time, it's very satisfying to dispel his fault logic.

 

C'mon, it can't be THAT bad

 

It's not difficult to know at all.

The 918 was accelerating slower on the 2nd lap of Laguna - Proven Fact.

The P1 did 2 laps of COTA unaffected - Proven Fact.

P1 draws less power relative to battery capacity - Proven Fact.

Oh sure, it doesn't matter that the tyres said 'MICHELIN'. And I suppose the drag races really resulted in a different outcome each time too right?

See any Corsas for the 918 on tirerack? Nope.

 

Strawmanning again. I never said it wasn't but there's a difference between getting wheelspin on exit and deliberately drifting around a whole corner, starting from before the apex.

 

Both cars were triggering their ABS straight away on the main straight from near 160mph, so which has more powerful brakes was actually irrelevant. The P1's ABS was very badly calibrated at the time and that has been improved since. In fact that was an issure on all early McLaren but you can see from results that the 675LT has very well sorted brakes, so problem solved.

And yet the P1, still had the fastest combined sector times, proving that even when operating sub-optimally it is still capable of beating the 918 with a perfect lap, even on a track well suited to the 918. And it can continue at that pace for far longer as treynor's telemetry proved.

 

Still strawmanning.

 

Incredible strawmanning.

Porsche would not have their car tested on non-standard tyres and the tyres say 'MICHELIN' in the video.

 

Nope, AP clearly said 'same tyres', not 'same sort of tyres'. Nobody in their right mind believes the 918 was anything except Cup 2s, especially when there is video evidence to prove it. You think they put Corsas on the 918 and but showed it on Cup 2s instead LOL?

 

Oh, so it was a press car, do tell. I thought these were supposed to be customer cars?

Treynor had also tracked his P1 heavily. They didn't do more laps in the 918 because it was done after one lap, it couldn't manage any more.

 

And you don't want the 918 to look badly. Treynor is VP of Google, if he wanted a 918, he'd just buy one. He was there, you were not, the end.

The P1 did 3 laps back-to-back within 0.3s, this is verified by Jason Hart's laps at COTA, which have irrefutable video evidence. The fact a driver deliberately drives slower on an in lap does nothing to change this clear video. Let's see one with the 918 doing the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idV6zMiWUIU&t=16s

In fact here is Porsche's test driver at COTA, why no published hot laps? LMFAO!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-CVQQK7BJI&t=25s

 

And you certainly didn't like it when the 918 got beaten at Portimao, Silverstone or Anglesey. In fact, Chris Harris was made publish the Trofeo lap because people like you believed the Corsa lap was on Trofeos.

I'm using information directly from an owner who actually attended Laguna, plus other things, like unedited videos to show P1 battery performance. You, on the other hand, are using a selection of strawmanning and sarcasm to try make a point.