Scary F1 behavior

I totally disagree on my car being an outlier..on what basis do you form that opinion?
18,000 360's sold, perhaps 14,000 F1's.
Majority of owners don't frequent forums and those that do come on looking for help....only the pro's can really answer the reliability question.

Market price of manuals is apparently driven by people wanting to heel toe and hear the click clack etc. Reliability is a small factor but there needs to be some context to the amount of issues.....




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Market and the obvious that was stated many times in this thread. Non-F1 components that will fail for sure and cause the F1 system not to go on gear. Though I agree that the F1 system by itself is not causing all the horror stories it falls victim to it. Also, I disagree that the components around it that will cause it to go stupid (stuck neutral) will never fail when well maintained.

Again as stated, focus on the broader sense of this topic. Which is F1 and non-F1 components that will cause F1 horror stories. Don't focus on F1 system itself. How bout brake bulbs, brake sensors, door sensors, trunk sensors, and many more? All these will fail and will make each F1 made to be a statistic to these failures that caused F1 to not go in gear. For gated, yeah the same non-F1 components will fail but gated don't fall victim to it. Why? Because gated system will still go in GEAR even if a brake bulb dies, brake sensor acts up, door sensors or more. For F1, is a different story. So statistically speaking each F1 made will fall victim to this and is part of the F1 horror stories statistic.

Let's not just fixate to F1 components but other components that make the F1 go stupid mode which is still an F1 horror story. I was a hardcore F1 fanatic but the drama is too much. Got me stranded twice (won't go in gear in the middle of the road) in just three months. For what? brake pedal sensor and brake fuse. Really?!!

 

Funny thing is, the manual 360s are the ones with actual transmission problems, mostly caused by ham fisting and dud feet. The F1 system pretty much ensures near perfect shifts, so the wear seen on the transaxles of 3 pedal 360s is just not there. Anybody hear complaints about cold 1-2 shifts with F1? Not an issue.

Jam- If you want to convert your 360 to 3 pedals, go for it, but you do not need to justify it to the rest of us with perfectly good F1 systems. Just do it.

 

Terry, not trying to justify at all.

I don't see anything wrong being truthful and providing personal feedback. Isn't this the purpose of forums? To share knowledge and experience.

Feel free to justify a perfect experience with F1 system. Nobody is stopping that. It's a free world out there. Sometimes opinions just end up agreeing to disagree and nothing wrong about that IMHO.

 

Number of trashed manual transmissions (and i do know of a manual with a bad 3rd syncro and other issues) versus number of posts about not being able to get it into gear and having it towed to dealership for diagnosis. Not factored are number of F1 cars we don't hear about versus the number of cars with transmissions with prior owners that knew how to drive stick.

One a week posting here on fchat with F1 issues or warning light, etc.

 

Your car is doing exactly what mine was doing before I replaced the clutch. I can't say for sure changing the clutch is the answer but it was for me.

 

+1 to add try clutch fluid flush first. Start with cheap fixes first befor diving deep when it's not even neccessary.

Nevertheless, still an F1 horror story due to the F1 TCU disables the car from going in gear completely even if F1 is just a victim of a non-F1 failure. Would be nice if it at least gives you a few feet to go in gear to park safely because clutch in nature should still allow you to go in gear on early stages of it's end-of-life.

 

The whole idea of that is to put her in neutral so you can at least move her. Being stuck somewhere in gear is far worse. On many F1 failures, you are left with only 1st and 2nd so she can be moved.

 

The purpose makes sense but would be better if it enables us to go in gear at least a few feet and not just stay in neutral. There's not always folks ready to help to push the car to the side. But yeah, it's far worse if the system defaults to getting stuck in gear.

It is what it is though, maybe someday somebody will be able to flash the TCU with this sort of extra programming so nobody would be stranded in the middle of the road anymore when F1 detects a fault within it's system or non-F1 system that's tied to it.

Let's say if its just brake bulb or door sensors flash the TCU to still let the car go in gear even for just a few feet to park for safety.

Paging Eric. ;-)

 

Over on the CALIFORNIA board, they speak of 30k transmission issues.

 

There is a quick and inexpensive solution to this.

https://www.scuding.com/Shop/en/360-modena-challenge-stradale/68-no-f1-failure-brake-light-connection-cable.html

 

Yup. Gen 1 DCT. Always wonder if the 458 has the same affliction. OTOH it's largely because they have to buy from Ferrari.

 

There you go! Brake bulb loop sensor. This is a MUST!

I hope there's the same for other fault sense like door sensors and trunks. When there's a demand there will be supply so get yourself heard.

 

While the logic for the F1 fail safe could of been done better, but falling back into neutral makes so much sense.

The strength of a manual trans is also its ultimate weakness. The F1's primary goal (beyond driving the car lol) is to prevent catastrophic gearbox and clutch failure by dropping to N as soon as something could be wrong. An average driver will not see it coming until the gearbox goes POOF.

Although the F1 does it by having a lot of complex (and with complexity comes illogical) logic that induces many more failure points via sensors and tweaks that few people understand, and wrapping it all up by inefficiently using up the clutch haha. I see this all the time at work, you introduce a simple but great idea, but then it goes through a process where a million + 1 use cases are introduced and then by taking all of them into account you end up with a bloated and complicated system.

 

Spot on but hopefully if there's enough demand there will be hacks available to slowly make it less complicated. One is the brake bulb loop device which takes out the worry of F1 going stupid (stuck in N) when brake bulbs die.

So that's a step to the right direction. If there's demand for other hacks to bypass some fault sense by the F1 system like door and trunk sensors then supplies will come. The demand for this kind of hacks will slowly make the F1 system less prone to getting stuck on Neutral on minor things. Let's see how this pans out overtime.

 

Let's just say, I know a guy who fixes these transmissions and he is replacing syncros in more than 1 per month. The numbers are there, people just don't pop on the forum to ask "I blew my syncros so I was wondering if there is an easy fix". The F1 has more parts and the transmission is ok so the user assumes it is an easy fix and asks the forum.

 

The shop getting this much work I can't respond to that but regarding forum postings? Sorry but this is an assumption regarding why we don't see much post about manual gearboxes issue IMHO.

People actually do ask questions like "why is it grinding on 2nd or some gear or popping out of gear" if they do have these issues. People (gated or F1) still double check and don't expect the worse.

I see these in Porsche (I had my share of 911s before) forums discussing these symptoms but not sure if it's synchros so owners are double checking first in forums before bringing to shops. This should be no different in this Ferrari forum, same inquiries will be popping-up if there are truly that so much issues for manual gearboxes. Not seeing these types of inquiries or double checking in this forum is a reflection that there's not much manual gearbox issues compared to F1 issues.

F1 or gated folks are still the same people. We will always ask and double check what does a particular symptom means regardless. Unless gated folks have money trees and wants to throw $$ away for big fixes without double checking the possibility of a small fix first, which I highly doubt.