Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

YESSSSSS you were finally man enough to admit the P1 LM is a tuner car! Hooray! Good job sport! Obviously they are associated with the factory they won the 24hr of lemans for them, nobody is arguing that. However it is by no means a McLaren manufactured car where as the F1 LM is. Hence why it is worth 25MM+.

It's laughable that the person trying to bring law into the equation is using the phrase "isn't really on McLaren's site" as an argument. It is on their site end of story. Sorry you were a little slow in finding it.

Also nobody (just you) is arguing that the tuner P1LM is faster than the 918 or Laf. Of course it is. Its a stripped out track car. Just like the FXXK is faster than the P1 & 918. It's just sad that you have to use it as a scapegoat because the P3 isn't upto par. What about PBs P3 that only managed 195 at VMAX. That's super fast! LOL. I thought you said driving in a straight line took no skill and blind people could do it???

 

I'm afraid not. When informing your insurance, you refer to it as a stock McLaren P1 LM.

McLaren and Lazante worked on it together, just as Ferrari and Pininfarina work on stuff together. Same applies in a host of other subcontracting examples too.

It's in an article tucked away, that's all. Now, I'm still waiting for where the McLaren MSO HS is on their site? Be sure to mention it in your next post. Also point out the P1 LM on Lazante's site, since it must be on there, given that it's their latest tuner car right?

It's so sad that whenever Porsche has a slower car they have to find a way of discrediting the opposition. BMW beats them in GT racing, move to have it disallowed, Lamborghini used a non-stock SV on the 'ring, therefore disallowed, Nissan too, but ignore my non-standard roof BTW, that's just for safety. And the latest is that the Mclaren P1 LM is a tuner car. Oh how them and their fanbois have a long history of competition 24hr endurance crying. Le 24 Heures de Pleure Bébé. They win that every time.

 

BTW, has anyone seen this amateur Cayman GT4 lap on Thermal Long, just 2s shy of Solomondrin's pro in a P1. So should be as fast on Trofeo Rs right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCk6VdloKVE

Also 2:13 in 991 GT3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYPng8TNAIg

 

This data is basically bang on with the data I've seen from my friends 918. So it's fair to assume most will be right around this mark in terms of acceleration.

 

When you register a Hennessey Venom GT you do it as a Lotus. So the insurance comment doesn't hold much weight.

 

Incase you forgot the owner of Lanzante saying he copied McLaren to make the tuner P1LM. I'll post it again, I know how forgetful you can be.

Why don't you post up a copy of your P1LM insurance card that you registered sport???
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Leaving out the height detail, for the blue F1 remains all the other facts of the alignment and still the exhaust question to give us the idea of stock or non stock.

Concerning Estoril, I'm honest that you have lifted an interesting point, because, being not confident with that track, with a first look the detail of being earlier a faster configuration was not the only factor to get. Maybe yes. But wait, this is not the definitive point able to prove the argument in a different track like the Ring, comparing cars. If so it need just 1+1 to get the 2. Even because just few data for that track, and an "extrapolated" one for the F1 (or not in the exactly the same track).

Concerning the height again, we cannot exclude the fact that if the car was fitted with aftermarket suspensions, or shock absorbers, or other parts around this point, there is the way to consider that the height can be changed in a car for track use. Maybe between pictures a detail can be escaped, maybe the car can had different settings choices quickly interchangeable.

Have fun.

 

EXACTLY!

Catching doesn't mean it's passing! No one doubt a P1 can accelerate faster at high speed. But accelerating faster still means it's playing catch up, watching the 918's tail lights. A P1 has traction issue coming out of corners unless its alike a 100mph+ corners, and most corners at most race tracks are not that fast. And then there is the braking part, the P1 has less powerful brakes and with a higher terminal speed it will need to brake earlier. We haven't eve got to the brake fade part, 918 has regen braking so the physical brakes are only doing half the work as on a P1, and the 918 has bigger brakes to begin with.

Rinse and repeat for just about any straights on any race track and you can see why a 918 could be faster on most of them.

As for trap speed, what's a few mph error? 1% or 2%? Tiny differences. Weather, and traction at launch can already accounted for those.

Have you see drag racing? Even those top fuel dragsters don't hit the exact same speed every time, even in a 1/4 mile race the speed can vary by a couple mph, extend that difference to 1/2 mile and you can see 4 mph difference is not even that huge.

Stop grasping at straws for your flawed argument.

BTW my car trapped 206mph, I got the video but I am waiting for McLaren to release the Ring lap before I release mine!

 

And McLaren copied what they did with the F1 GTRs for the F1 LM. They were subcontracted by McLaren to do it. It's an official McLaren model, hence why it's called a McLaren.

Basically what you're telling me, is that a McLaren P1 LM isn't a McLaren. Does that sound sensible to you?

The orignal F1 LM was also based on the F1 GTR, modified for road use. Who is Kenny Brack, who drove at Goodwood? A McLaren factory driver. It's also described everywhere as a 'limited production road car'.

 

A stock Lotus? I don't think so.

 

On a good surface, test data shows it begins catching after 7s from a dig, and can be near level at 10s. Obviously on a bad surface, it will take longer.

Actually it had a bad ABS system during earlier tests, particularly at Laguna Seca, which has since been recalibrated, with a notable improvement. The same calibration process was also applied to the LT, which stops like nothing else. The brakes, even without KERS are enough to trigger the ABS from well above 160mph and the P1 is capable of generating more drag, which also aids stopping at high speeds. In the braking zone into Torre VIP in the recent Grand Tour test, we saw the P1 was actually braking later than the 918 based on the speed measurement.

Not that simple, you will see a similar result for 30mph hairpins yes, but not so for intermedite (60-90mph) and fast (90+mph bends). There will certainly be no problem with traction on the 3 fastest turns at SPA at 120mph in 5th gear. It's just fortunate for the 918 that magazines tend to test on short, slow tracks and not F1 GP tracks, where the P1 makes a much better bet.

If your car finished a 1.7 mile stretch 1mph down on a LaF, it likely finished ahead time wise. And that certainly is atypical. Still waiting for a 918 to clock 205+mph in a standing mile though.

After the Aventador SV's lap, I think only very silly people still doubt the P1's sub-7 minute lap. And even a tuned Huracan has beaten the 918. Not that it's a great metric, because conditions are too variable there and the track very long. Can you honestly say that <0.3s/minute faster than an Aventador SV on Corsas is the 918's finest hour?

 

In what distance?

 

Real research can be you friend. O'Rouge sounds Irish and Spa sure as hell isn't in Ireland. You know you know.

 

That's correct. 918 will crush anything stock to ~ 125 mph. After that P1 comes back. Whoopsys point is that by that time however, the 918 has built up such a lead that the P1 doesn't catch the 918 until the mile mark or thereabouts. There is a much greater difference in speed between the two after 3 seconds acceleration than 12 seconds. 3 seconds in, the 918 will be up to 10 mph ahead, 12 seconds in, the P1 may be 1-2 mph a head.

A 918 won't trap that in a standing mile my friend. 200 MAYBE 201 max although 199.6 is my friends best time. P1 has better top end acceleration.

The Aventador lap was rubbish. I don't know what mods they made to the car but I've driven an SV and I don't see how anyone could reproduce that time in a customer car. The P1 would have released a time if they beat the 918's. Simple as that.

 

Sport, what myself and everyone else are very obviously saying is that the P1 LM is a tuned non-original Mclaren. It left the Mclaren factory as a P1GTR then Lanzante tuned it up. A driver driving the car up a hill doesn't magically turn the car into a factory original...well maybe in your mind it does.

Lanzante saw an opportunity to make a few bucks so they converted a handful of cars into non factory P1 LMs. Good for them. You think a company like McLaren that has thousands of employees and 500+ million in revenue needs a small race shop to make a car street legal? Oh wait! That did happen when Mclaren made the F1 LM. Get a grip bud.

Would you classify the F1 LM an original car like everyone else does?

 

Okay, since you're using spelling to dismiss the argument, lets address grammar, see above.

 

It's accelerating faster even before 125mph, that's just the speed at which it actually starts gaining. Start the race from 70mph in 3rd gear, and the P1 will accelerate faster straight away. But from a dig, the 918 gets to 60 first and the P1 has to make up fro lost time between 60mph and 120mph. P1 loses 0.4s to 60mph against 918 but then reaches 100mph 0.2s sooner. However this was the pre-frigged 918 that lasted 6 minutes in HL mode. Now it's probably more like 120mph from a dig before the P1 is going faster but not every corner is a dig, sometimes apex speed is 60, 70, 80 or even 100+, especially on the 'ring and several GP tracks.

McLaren P1: How I Set The Motor Trend Production-Car Record - Motor Trend
Performance Data and Complete Specs

Sport Auto measured the 918 at 7:13. AZ ran 7:15 with the SV. So all seems in order. You have to remember this was the pre-frigged 918. Now it's faster but not for long enough to do a 'ring lap.

 

if the P1's sub 7 min is so obvious, Mclaren should release the evidence immediately. Rumours and innuendo don't make it so, direct evidence does.

 

Well son, I don't see others like it, so it's certainly original and Mclaren has placed its name on it and worked together with Lazante to produce it. It started as a P1 GTR, then McLaren worked with Lazante to make it road legal and expanded engine capacity to 4.0L to allow it to run P1 GTR power levels on pump gas.

Ridiculous comment, large companies subcontract to small companies all the time. In fact often the larger an engineering company is, the less actual engineering it does and the more it subcontracts. I've witnessed this firsthand throughout my career. Again son, you're out of your depth. Does a big company like VW need someone like Ricardo to produce a transmission for the Veyron? Yes. Does Pagani need a company like Xtrac? Yes. Porsche - Borg Warner, yes. I would say a transmission is a far larger deal actually.

If the F1 LM is allowed by 'your rules' then a P1 LM is automatically allowed by the same rules. Produced in exactly the same quantity. Made by homologating a GTR version in both cases. In many respects, who made it is moot. Both are limited, 6off vehicles produced by homologating the GTR version of the F1 and P1 respectively.

Nice try though son.

 

It'll release them when Grand Tour releases the Portimao laps showing a standing start. At the moment they're just showing the edited version. Less edited than the Grand Tour's laps mind. For now all they're claiming is the equivalent of a sub-2 minute Portimao lap. I.e. not much.

 

Man I love the jetstream of BS that comes out of your mouth. It really is enjoyable sport! LOLOLOL so it doesn't matter who finishes the car now just that they are produced in the same quantities as the factory originals. Man that is some great material.

"My rules" & and everyone else's, but yourself are a car must leave the same factory it was produced. Not leaving a small raceshop after a bunch of modifications were done. CRAP I forgot they made 6 just like the F1 LM so it is has to be a factory car! Great argument sport!! The argument of the owner of the shop saying they copied McLaren at their own game holds no water. No way!! (I included it just incase you forgot)
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Don't quote that motortrend test. No P1 has been near 4.7 seconds to 100 mph in any test except that one. Motortrend went to Mclarens home track and was provided a car. Who knows what kind of boost it had. I'd say this customer car tested by Autocar is more accurate due to the traction issues.

McLaren P1 performance | Autocar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWmi7_LrjYY

I provided text and video. From a BRITISH magazine who was absolutely obsessed with the P1. This is a real customer car, not a OEM provided car. Members here have provided real world data from their customer 918's showing times quicker than the mags. Now you've shown a real selection bias when it comes to reviewing data. So I don't expect this to sink in. However, the facts are undeniable, you just refuse to believe them.

And the thing is, members here are GIVING THE P1 CREDIT for being great at what it's great at (better drivers car than 918, better acceleration after 130 mph, looks are subjective but I find it more striking, etc.). We are also knocking it for what it's not great at, like off the line traction. In video games, your familiar territory, traction isn't a problem. But in the real world, when the P1 is below 60 mph and fighting for traction, the 918 is just accelerating faster and faster.

 

Yes, agreed. The production 918 WP cars all deliver the same performance. Their electronic complexity means that it is virtually impossible for an aftermarket company to tune or increase performance.

And here is some 918 performance trivia...

The 918's launch acceleration appears to be inhibited by an electronic torque limiter that holds the car back from full power for about the first 1 second or ~30 mph. I can feel the torque limiter and it also shows up in the data. The 918 does not launch any better than the RWD hypercars such as the LaFerrari and P1.

If the 918 launched as hard as other AWD high performance cars such as Aventador SV, 911 Turbo, etc, it would do 0 to 60 mph in 2.0 seconds, and 0-124mph in 6.6 seconds.

 

That yellow MT P1 was an XP, with none stock ECU? no other P1 ever has come close to its times.
Even P1 owners don't attach any weight to the sub 7.0 ring time claims.

Feb 28th 2014, Top gear track 918 was all ready to go, I was invited to the test. At the last minute the P1 pulled out..

 

ROTFL. You mean to tell me that McLaren has been waiting two years for a show to appear that didn't even exist at the time before they could release their Nring laptime? What amazing foresight! They are the best!