Join me (the idiot) in my bumbling journey of discovery with my new friend Leonardo, who prefers to be called "Leo". When Leo first arrived it was all rather exciting, he came in a huge box that looked all 'mission impossible' like - very cool. He was even multi-layered, which was really clever (or is that multi-talented.... get the two confused. So Leo opened up and showed what gadgets he had hidden away. stay tuned for the next exciting episode of "Leo comes for tea". Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Hi I'll write up my current status on the engine thread. This thread is to show others what you get with a 'Leo' and what it's quirks are.
Thanks for putting this thread together. I'll look forward to reading it [emoji4] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
20k = in my dreams, if i had 20k i would buy a SDX. Pricing for a specific model of F, you are looking at 5k. if you discuss with them or Nick (but I think Nick would give more/better support) you can have a selection of F cars in a package and they're provide a price for that. Personally, I wanted to cover 348, 355, 360, 456 (not that i have all these but that sort of covers my sweet spot).
Well then you don't have the full Leo. And, Nick has been nothing less than responsive to me and I have not even bought yet.
Can nick comes and tell me why they are selling me a Gallileo(smaller version of leonardo) for $8000?
Galileo I'd like to think its a more modern tablet and perhaps the software is different or models covered, so hard to say. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ TABLET Let talk about the tablet, a wonderful blast of nostalgia. It's...... Slow by today's standards Resistive touch screen = about as accurate as playing darts with your eyes shut. So very much something from the last decade. You'll see in many vids people using the eraser end of a pencil as a stylus = after a few hrs your will use one too...it's the only thing that works. Oh and did I mention how to turn it on and off.....LOL There is a tiny little black push button on the under side. You'll think it's a reset button at first, but no that's the power switch. As for instructions, well there is the print A4 paper you see in the pictures...but that will tell you nothing.
There should be a stylus in the bottom right corner of the unit - it works quite well. If you think the Leonardo takes time to load you should see how long it takes an SD3 to boot up! If anyone is thinking of buying a Leonardo for Lamborghini don't bother, the coverage is terrible. You can't even get any sense out of a Gallardo engine ECU. In terms of coverage, my personal opinion is that the Leonardo doesn't offer much when you consider the cost. If you've never used SD2/3 then you'll think it's amazing but compared to the factory kit the coverage is patchy and very shallow.
I know 2 ex factory techs that haved used every SD (for many years). They now have there own shop and have the Full Leo + addition coverage such as 458. They have told me they can do everything that they could with an SD stating sometimes the Leo just takes a bit longer.
1st up. Thank you so much Voicey, your help over the holiday has got me through it - and there is good news ....my wheels are turning 2nd up. I did correspond with Nick - and he was super, he even recommended I buy direct given i was in asia and not in USA. I was going to do a post later in regard to Ital-glish (the official language at Accinni) which would have suggested buying it from nick for three reasons... a) Nick speaks english b) He uses one and so knows it c) His price was cheaper - don't you just love global exchange rates. If I was in USA, I'd certainly buy it from Nick for those reasons. 3rd up. Perhaps i should explain my idea for this thread. Everyone knows that pretty much from 355-F1 onwards, that if you don't have some form of diagnostic for at least the F1 system you are going to be in a world of confusion and doubt, and doubly so if there aren't any friendly pro-shops that will do a scan for a modest fee. As a hobbiest/non-professional I had read what i thought to be almost every thread there was on diagnostic solutions and none of them were particularly clear as to a low cost winner. So for me, I was non-the wiser as to which was the cheapest with the core essential functions that i should buy. I mean 5k is a serious chunk of money to spend on something that ends up being useless. So, my goal here is to write up my experience with Leo, so that others who are considering buying one can make a better informed decision. I'm sort of hoping that others who have the other diagnostic tools - might feel motivate to write up their experiences and then finally there should be enough info from which people can make better decisions.
NO, THE galileo is cheaper than the leonardo , hardware wise. Nick specifically told me this and also was confirmed by Accini Nick from Forza, would you please come over and tell me why I was charged $8000 for identical software and cheaper hardware ?
I disagree. I personally own an SD2 and SD3 plus a load of other kit. The workshop I do a lot of work for have a Leonardo and it is nowhere close to the factory kit. Off the top of my head... - Do a TCU self learn, the Leonardo won't give you the EOL confirmation that all completed well or what it errored on. It just says completed even if it didn't. - Engine ECUs - the Leonardo doesn't have all the revisions. F430 for example, there are at least three in the SD3 (not including the CH). Leonardo has one. Maserati QP has about 6 versions, Leonardo just the one. - Ask the TCU to select a gear in a 360. SD2 will display the operations that is is doing (like pump on, check selection position, etc, etc) and will tell you what step it errored on if it failed. Leonardo just says completed, even if it didn't. - No DEIS calibration in the Leonardo whatsoever (for later clutch set ups) - No Auto PIS calibration in the Leonardo (used after the DEIS). - No key programming for Maserati 4200 - No ECU status checks available when you connect to the body computer with the Leonardo (available with the SD3) - No Airbag resistance values with the Leonardo - No proxy alignment available with the Leonardo I could probably sit here and think of more examples but have better things to do. The only thing that I have to rely on the Leonardo for is to connect to Gallardo spider roof modules - I just don't have the coverage within my kit for this. One a plus side, the Leonardo has coverage for the modern tipos that the SD3 doesn't. However I personally have excellent coverage for these models without the £20k price tag that the Leonardo comes with. Another plus point is the support that the Leonardo comes with. I have called their factory quite a few times and once I've got through to someone who speaks English they are extremely helpful and will bend over backwards to help resolve an issue (be it with the diagnostic itself or with something I'd not seen before).
I have the Leonardo also I can pretty well do anything PIS reading , clutch reading to bleeding Ediff and F1 system and also recode new key thobs, it depents on what package you get i,m good from 355, thur 360,430,458,and on to the Enzo and mostly all the Maserati models the support is amazing, i find it alot faster then SD3 anytime
Maybe your Leonardo may not have all the updates there always new monthly updates ,if you have a SD3 there no support and repairs and no updates unless your a Ferrari Factory dealer so how are you updating your SD3 or if you needed any Tech support how would you deal with it maybe your calling Leonardo for all your Tech support !!!, well you have to be a owner of a leonardo and have a subscription to even talk to Leonardo for support, the Leonardo is a perfect aftermarket tool, the support is great and they speak good English they send email in good understanding way, don,t forget your calling Italy at least the support is not from some other part of the globe.
I personally update the Leonardo whenever the factory tells us an update is available. There is a lack of support and updates for SD2/3 and I acknowledge that the Leonardo has the advantage in this area. However the coverage is nowhere near the factory tools. Does your Leonardo have the DEIS calibration and auto PIS calibration functions for later clutch set ups? Does it have proxy alignment functions for replacing ECUs? (Genuine questions - if you have them then I need to get our Leonardo updated).
Absolute ! i just did a PIS calibration on 458 and the California if you have the latest software version after the 1.60.0, the Leonardo take the SD3 and the latest tool the factory uses and download everything into the Leonardo software tool system and it get all the latest factory updates, as for your SD3 you will start losing all latest function and as newer software start coming in and at one point your SD3 will be outdated and have to be replaced and how do you do that it hard getting any SD3 these days never mind there latest one the Factory is using now, i,m sure if you do find one it won,t be 20k maybe 60k or 70k not sure what the factory is using today maybe a updated SD4 remember there working on 488 i don,t think SD3 can work on the 488, that what great about the Leonardo it always going to update to the Factory software to the latest model with there updates.
You need to read his post and understand it. For the models the SD series is designed to diagnose, they have more complete features than the Leonardo systems. The SD series are not designed to work with the newer models and he has another package that does that. Even in the SD series, there is a hierarchy, with the SD2 working better on earlier models like the 360 and 575 than the SD3, but between the two, you get complete coverage for the models they are designed to diagnose. You do not need updates on the SD series because they are already complete for those models. Later models, you need something else, which he has. Whether an SD3 can diagnose a 488 or not is irrelevant. Leonardos are excellent tools and much less expensive than buying a complete set of SDs, but they are not as complete because they did not have manufacturers' factory support. For those of us who cannot afford either Leonardo or SDs, there are other systems like Auto Enginuity and the one Voicey has. Affordable, able to do the basic tasks, but not as complete.
What about the Autel systems that Mark has looked into for his '16M' build? Is there any experience of those on here? Angus, you enquired about it at the time but them went the Leonardo route.....Did it fall short? https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/360-430-sponsored-yellow-compass-group/465662-f430-new-owner-diary-inc-maintenance-upgrades-9.html Claimed coverage http://download908bak.auteltech.net:8080/Download/Veh/MaxiSYS/Ferrari/en_about.pdf As a hobbyist I could justify the Mini system at <£1000 but anything else is just too much of a stretch. I may mail them to see if they have anymore info on the functions rather than Marelli CFC231 etc. I think we may be getting close to someone bringing out a system for the hobby end of the market........I have a great little service tool for my BMW's which was $40!
Mike- Here is the section you reference. "Ferrari diagnostics "I wanted to perform the diagnostics on the car before I went back to Ed for a clutch setup, mainly because I enjoy it, but also I didn't want to have it transported when I still didn't know if the engine ECUs would work with the Scuderia TCU - as that's a round trip and a load of organisation for no real gain, so I decided to investigate what options are out there to suit an advanced hobbyist. My requirements were to be able to read, clear, and view data from all modules in the car. Advanced service functions such as actuator setup, self learn, and bleeding etc. would be a bonus. I'll start by stating the obvious (or not): there is no real substitute for an SD3. I found there are some pretty decent professional grade alternatives out there such as Leonardo (Voicey uses this) but the cost is prohibitive for hobby work (£20k/$25k purchase, £5k/$6.2k subscription). I found a more reasonably priced alternative in the states - Auto Enginuity - but they force you to buy a whole European expansion pack even if you just want Ferrari so the total amounts to over £3k/$3.7k, which for these cars is still not really that bad given it performs all of the service functions in addition to diag. There is a Texa equivalent that does the same for a similar price. I continued and looked at all of the mid-range hand-held readers on the market then stumbled across Autel. I noticed that their August 2016 software update included Ferrari and was available on their cheaper unit called the MaxiSys Mini. These can go for quite a bit under £1k/$1250 on eBay which makes them great value. The annual subscription is £500/$621 but if you buy a used version with Ferrari v2 it won't time out - I confirmed this with Autel. It covers a lot of models but I'm really only interested in the F430. It performs actuator calibration and bleeding operations but I am using it for diagnosis. Their more expensive MaxiSys Pro at £1800/$2200 has fully fledged service functions like self learn etc." Thus the Autel is limited in function unless you buy the Pro version and there is also an annual subscription fee. I bought my techs the Auto Enginuity system for $3500, which includes all future updates. It also included most Japanese, American, and European cars. Works well on my 575M and later model Ferraris and they have also used it for BMWs, Porsches, and Mercedes cars with good luck.
At the end of the day, one should remember these are just tools. Tools that provide information, that needs to be analysed and understanding the operating principles of the system being analysed a diagnosis can be performed. Nothing plugs in and spits out the solution. Different units can perform more detailed functions, as described by Voicey from the SD machines. The Leo is very thorough but is a tad below the completeness of the SD on some models. It is quick and easy to use, I also have Auto Enginuity, which serves my need for more marque coverage. It is a little trickier to navigate for me, I am 66!, and slower still. Ultimately, most individuals could do as well with a good OBD reader and understanding of the systems than spend on these units. And, I have a long standing logic line in my diagnostic brain, "If things don't change, they will stay as they are". If you think carefully you might see where that leads as to a clutch replacement for example...... Bottom line, I needed a Leo, could not see an SD as an alternative. Expensive, yes. Functional, yes. Supported, yes. Cost effective? Ask my customers.
