Poll: Winter storage to start or not to start

Condensation is introduced in the oil by piston blowby. The gases that enter the crankcase that way have water content by definition!
As such, the crankcase is also vented of course, to allow those gases to vent to the engine intake for re-burning. That is what the PCV system is for, V for Ventilation.

Varnish - Fuel does not evaporate that quickly. Eventually it can become varnish-like, but that takes many years. I have recommissioned many classic cars, where I live even after 10+ years of unattended standstill, fuel is never a problem. Mind you, that does depend on the storage climate, hotter environment is worse.
Equipment with small tanks like mopeds or lawnmowers are far more affected by this than cars with their large tanks.
It is not like all the oil has dripped off in a few months, there is always oil left on parts and just one cold/dry start at the end of winter is better than ten!

I know classic cars inside and out, and my vote is park it very hot - and leave it alone.

 

I strongly (and respectfully) disagree with this

 

The PCV system is not in operation when the car is in storage.

I have seen many carbs caramelized after only a few months of storage. This is why many carbs have a float bowl drain. If you don't drain the fuel out before storage, the jets will become clogged. Fuel stabilizer won't help.

Fuel injection systems can also be easily clogged. The metering slits in the K-Jet are very small, and easily clogged with evaporated fuel. The plunger itself can become stuck without fuel for lubrication. "O" rings become dried out. Injectors are also easily clogged.

Letting a car sit for 10 years is a really bad idea. The rings can become rusted to the cylinders, and seize the engine.


You are all welcome to let your cars sit. You will find out the hard way.

 

I am no expert but I will say I have always stored my cars on a battery tender then just drive when I can. I came to Vegas from Colorado and my routine really hasn't changed as I travel a lot.

 

This is not directly related to the storage question, but is relevant because it supports the point made by several in this discussion that running for short periods, at idle or low load, causes issues with fuel dilution of the oil - Road and Track article on "Why you shouldn't warm up your car" - Is Warming Up Your Car Bad? - Why You Should Never Warm Up Your Car in Winter

To relate this back to the storage discussion - unless you can get your engine fully up to operating temperatures, including oil temperature, you will get increased fuel contamination in the oil every time you start and let it idle for 10 minutes. Over the course of a couple of months, this will be significant and detrimental, IMHO outweighing any benefits of occasional starts. If you really want to circulate oil to keep seals wet, just pull the fuel pump fuse and crank the engine a few times to build oil pressure, then you've accomplished the goal!
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When I lived in Rochester, NY, I stored my Ferrari 330 GTC, FIAT 124 and ALFA GTV for approximately six months in an unheated garage.
Before storage, I would change the oil, drive the cars for a half hour or so and then run the carbs dry.
Then I parked them and didn't start them until spring.
The FIAT is running like new at 148,000 miles on the ORIGINAL Weber carb.

The ALFA has 101,000 miles and runs like new - original Weber carbs, not rebuilt. I replaced the valves and guides at 96,000 miles.

The GTC has 184,000 miles and runs perfectly. Only the carb gaskets and float valves have been changed. I rebuilt the engine at 162,000 miles.

I have been running unleaded regular for more than ten years - never a problem.

Bob Z.

 

Im surprised the carbs didnt leak afterwards running them dry like that. Ive had seals dry up in carbs from sitting. I guess 6 months is ok.

 

Not sure about the oil part.
On their site, Briggs &Strstton recommends a fresh oil change prior to winter storage, citing not wanting old particulate to settle/solidify at the bottom, or something like that.
It could be that the lightly used oil you recommend doesnt have much of that stuff to worry about, but I'd be interested in seeing some sources to back that up.
Otherwise, IMO, when in doubt, fresh is best prior to storage.

 

non issue with synthetic oil. alot of the "rules" people cite are from 40 years ago. start it if ur gonna drive it, otherwise dont start it.

 

well waddya know

Warming Up Your Car in the Cold Just Harms the Engine

 

So warming up the car damages it by " stripping oil away from the engine's cylinders and pistons".

Sorry but that makes no sense whatsoever. And I would take any automotive advise from "Popular Mechanics" with a large grain of salt.

 

Both of my 66 corvettes and Carbed harley start within seconds out of winter storage every season for the past 20+ years with fuel stabilizer (6-7 months storage). I once had a Kawasaki motorcycle that had to be gone through because of varnish, but that thing sat for 3 years.

 

Run a CIS injected car dry, and let it sit. You will seize a $500 fuel pump, and an FD plunger that will cost more than that.

 

Unless you're priming the oil pump first, I guarantee you're getting metal on metal contact at start-up.

 

I was responding to (refuting) your claim that fuel stabilizer does not work and jets clog up in a couple of months despite it. It's worked 100% of the time for me over the last 20 years....or maybe I'm just that lucky.

metal on metal is a completely different aspect of the discussion.

 

It apparently didn't work on your Kawasaki. Just because it sat 3 years, doesn't mean that's how long it took to clog up. If you don't drain the float bowls (the drain is there for just that reason), the jets will clog in as little as 3 months. Fuel stabilizer or not.

 

I do not start during winter in the NE. It sits covered in an attached garage and on those raceramps with 42 psi. The car is detailed then driven normally for at least 1/2 hr with all systems on/off and fresh full tank with stabilizer and injector lube before storage. For smaller engines or longer storage, I pull the plugs and fog the cylinders and run without ignition/fuel to circulate. Then apply aluminum anti-seize to plug threads (not the threads open to cylinder) and torque to spec. Also apply anticorrosion gel to conductors/plug boots. Pulling the plugs also lets you see how your engine has been running but have not done this on the V12.

There is one exception to the above winter routine. My annual is end of Feb - early March and it gets a 1.5 hr drive to the dealer each way on the warmest days with no salt or wet road. This sucks but technically it will only sit for 2.5 months without a long run. Summer tires in fridgid temps with 731hp is not fun. I think last year it was extended a month so not sure when its due this year.

Also, take a look at your x-pipe when your car is on the lift. A lot of white corrosion at the joints from moisture - guaranteed. Was under one with delivery miles three days ago and lots of crud at the joints/fittings. I believe this is due to short run cycles.

If I had a tdf engine with mechanical lifters I definitely would avoid cold dry starts. Would leave it alone and figure a way to circulate the oil before startup after storage. My motorcycles are like that and I do several kicks with key off to circulate. I have seen cam bearing wear from dry startup. General rule is don't start unless you are going for a good run. Startup causes wear period. Doing it in frigid temps seems worse even if you go for a good run.

 

Apologies, my post was not clear.... The ONLY time I ever had a varnished over carb/jets was when I did NOT USE fuel stabilizer in my Kawasaki that sat for 3 years, the tank was also not full of fuel when stored and the inside scaled and rusted. In 20+ years and at least six different cars and bikes ( all carbed and/or FI) I have never had a spring restart issue when using fuel stabilizer. It works

 

50deg last two days, drove the toys and hankering for a mountain drive. I hear your blow off valve to celebrate New Years Eve. In the am you hear my blow off valve at 8K rpm at 8am. Fair is fair.

Also, my source for oil used vs. new comes from too much time on BITOG and Blackstone lab analysis on my own cars. New oil causes a spike in wear metals, it stabilizes as it breaks in. I have to remember the estimates but it can take 500mi or more depending on the oil to provide max protection. Unnecessary (premature) changes, long sitting (dry start), short trips are contributors to faster engine wear. I was instructed to push to 8K miles and 2 years for my next sample showing wear on a modified engine producing 200hp/liter consistent with 2500mi in 6200mi actual. I must be doing something right with the grade, brand, temperature, and driving. Fwiw.

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Please could you explain this in an idiot-proof way for me? I will be starting my 550 after a few months next week and don't like the metal on metal idea. What do I need to do to get the oil circulating before the engine fires?

 

Drive it at least once, if not twice per week, for at least 20-30mi each time and don't shut it off until it's fully warm. That's how my cars stay in prime shape. Sitting is for collectors.

On the technical side, oil pressure spikes in an instant. The 550 Maranello oil filter from my quick research comes with an anti-drain back valve. This keeps the filter full and sends oil to the block and head as soon as you start cranking because it doesn't drain back to the sump sitting. In theory, the filter must be in working order.

If you start your car after a week or more of sitting, then it's a dry start. Motors are designed to take this wear, point blank. They aren't designed to take repeat dry starts and short trips in a city scenario. Daily drivers have protection on the bores from the previous drive, however never getting things fully hot with short city drives is still a severe driving environment hardest on consumables and fluids. These short trips or not getting fully warm evidences itself is oil usage over time and miles. On a fun car, you won't see any long term effect if you kept it long enough to see high mileage.

Old, carb driven cars that are prone to harder starting dormant for winter, you would pull the fuel pump fuse and crank the motor so it builds up cylinder pressure and provides oil but no fuel. Then you would replace the fuse and start it normally for what passes as normal in old cars anyway.

 

Hold the pedal to the floor and crank the starter for a bit till you see some pressure on the oil gauge. Won't take long and it should not start nor squirt fuel into the cylinders. Release pedal and start normally...ready to go...if salt is off of your roads...

 

This is correct. Putting the pedal to the floor on 1996 and newer cars shuts off the fuel delivery so oil is not getting washed away.

 

Thanks for that. Appreciated. Yes I need to work out whether the roads have been salted next week, often not the case in the UK in winter. Forecast is good. Nice way to cheer up a winter, and if I'm doing the car some good all the better!

 

It's mid-40s here in NJ today, Jan 1 2017. I couldn't resist taking my 355 for a nice 30mi run on the highway. I always scout roads before taking off to ensure there's no visible salt and if so it's a green light. Good for my soul and can't think of a better way to start the New Year. I also did some fixes/improvements over the holiday so it was also a check up of sorts. Every classic car if owned and sold, I've never had any remorse taking the cars out in winter days.