For those looking for a decent Dino that hasn't been jacked with, this is a steal. For those pontificating why this is a state of things to come, let's see how we all agree to debate this in Summer 2017. Shawn
I agree 100% with Shawn about Sheehan's current Dino being a steal, and if I were in the market for my third Dino, I'd jump on Sheehan's gts now. If Skipp's seriously looking for a solid Dino, he should get a hold of Sheehan, set up a PPI, and fly out to see it, because no matter how much of a mechanic someone thinks they are, it pays dividends to invest some time AND money up front to get a PPI from experienced Dino mechanics (such as Carlo Durante or Patrick Ottis on the West Coast, for example). You can learn a lot from them that you can apply in the future, especially when looking at cars that you, after consultation with your Dino expert, ultimately reject.
Why do you think shaheens car is such a steal ? I've seen more detailed photos of paint that's spidering / cracking all over, worn out suspension bushings, oily and rusty looking undercarriage. The photos on his website look fine. What was emailed to me made me look the other way.
Here's the Shaheen car. What do you guys think is behind the paint that appears to be bubbling at the leading edge of the rocker panel ? I was told that it was where the factory welded the fender onto the car. Experts please chime in. I have no problem with the car, but that area on the rocker looks troubling to me, but experts please set me straight if I'm wrong. Skipp Image Unavailable, Please Login
You can adopt me! As long as you will the Dino to me, of course! A 550 over a Dino??!?! These damn kids and their music.
Forgive the 2c, but if you like everything else about the car, this issue seems like something to be sorted during a PPI. Everyone here could say it looks like an underlying rust issue, but they could all be wrong, or vice versa. Even for experts, pics on the internet only go so far. Edit: As for my take on the pic, some areas seem to stick out a bit, which could be rust, but other areas seem to sink in a bit, which I've never seen with rust but have seen with weld points, so their explanation might be right. PPI.
Skipp, a Dino 'driver' that has not been restored 'properly' will never, ever be rust free. Regards, Alberto
Skipp, First, before a PPI I would drive the car and see how it feels and drives. Get the car truly up to operating temps and keep driving. Vintage cars act differently cold vs on a long drive. Most mechanics are lazy and rarely will only test the car in the shop and around the block. If it "talks" to you and you really like it, I would go to the next level of PPI to check out the details. You need to get an "unbiased" PPI with an outsider. Most local dealers have reationships with local shops. I would look at the big picture (overall condition, original colors, documents/tools, what's needed, price etc) in choosing a Dino vs small details (fixable flaws). As they say, you learn more about a car once you've paid the money and in the first 30 minutes of a drive. Freeman
Alberto is 100% correct. Remember that most often you get what you pay for, so getting a rust free Dino cheap is a rare option. Even a "completely refurbished" Dino can be full of hidden corrosion just waiting for bubbling out through the fine paint. It takes an unbelievable effort and cost to fix these cars correctly. Best regards Peter
Thanks once again for the input. I never said anything about getting a rust free Dino on the cheap. Rather, I'm looking for a quality car that is presented well at a market correct price. I'm not looking for a car that has obvious neglect. The undercarriage of these cars tells the story. They all look nice from above. I understand there are places that hide corrosion, but I'm at least looking for one that doesn't have a bunch of corrosion and oil leaks starring you in the face, at jacked up dealer prices.
Don't worry Skipp, Sheehan just reissued his article touting the market is 30% off of its high, or should be, and sellers are delusional about prices. The Dino he has should be 225K shortly, unless he believes it would have sold for 410K Aug 2014. He states the highwater mark for Dinos GTS was 460ish, by his own account pristine Dino GTS should be no more than 320K. I'm sure many here would not sell their car for this amount and that is the conundrum. Markets have 2 sides buyers and sellers. Just because buyers want to pay X does not mean sellers must sell at X. Now I'm not saying he has customers who are looking for cars and he can't fulfill their orders, but he is a car sales person and he relies on transactions. I wonder what he was telling his customers 2 years ago.
Skipp, Dino were born rusty. Depending on their neglect or care, some are rustier than others. But rusty, they all are. The only exception, is a car that has been restored by opening all enclosed panels, doors, hoods, etc. If this procedure has not been performed, it will be rusty there and everywhere, and then....? If this process is not performed, you will NEVER have a 'bunch, or less corrosion'. Don't mean to pick on you, but rust is like cancer, either cure it (try) or die. Look at one of Matthias' cars and at the central chassis tube...you will smile. So if you find a car, you have to look at all the chassis tubes from the underside and remove a lot of rivets. A PPI will not do here. Opening body panels to look for rust? Do not think any seller will allow that. Best of luck in your quest! Regards, Alberto
Chris, I co-own an '73 Euro, right-hand drive GTS in Gallo Fly with black leather interior. Subject to a bare chassis restoration in 2005 it's rust free (except for one small blister on the engine lid that has not changed/grown in our 10 year ownership so might not be rust). My co-owner is ill and has muted the idea of selling to me or someone else. Its in very good condition, but not concourse. We didn't want a car we would be afraid to drive. About 28k on clock, probably since engine rebuild in 2005. It's in London, England. Would you like any further information?
Historically, Sheehan has been very dismissive of Dinos. I'm surprised he ever lowered himself to deal with such trash.
So, based on the responses, all of you are either driving cars that are slowly rotting away or have paid for a full restoration. Does that the bottom line ? Nothing in between ?
Trust me, having an early 308GTB of the same materials.......yes. There was little to no finishing of the materials that are unseen. Add to that, the riveted construction (lighter than screws) and the attachment of dissimilar metals. It's a wonder any of them survived really. The Dinos you see in the damp UK climate, rusted away to the belt line...that's real. It does look like a post above offers a candidate! Check it out! It took a long time to change. I added two FIAT 124 Spiders to my collection (the final version called 2000 as a model.) I spotted the remains of one, off the highway recently. There was a not a single panel, of that abandoned car, that had not melted away from corrosion. I might go back for some suspension bits, the rear axle and differential. That window glass..... Image Unavailable, Please Login
So, assuming I purchase one of the many cars out there with hidden rust issues, what is the actual remedy / solution for me to fix the car ? Short of completely disassembling the car like OMGjon does, is there a solution ? This input is much appreciated even if it isn't what I would like to hear.
Sounds about right. Buy it. Drive it. Enjoy it. Entropy always wins...if you aver think it, then it's no fun.
Skipp, the question is, do you want/not want hidden rust? And how much is a little or a lot? If you don't mind, then it is settled. If you mind, nothing short of a full restoration, that MUST include panel opening will do. I started restoration of two Dino that looked fine from the outside, but upon opening all panels, there was ....rust. Now, it is gone, urethane rejoined, end of story, end of problem. You know what? Not only Dino, but Alfa, BMW, anything that is boxed in a seam will accumulate water, not only rain, but even washing. All of the above were not built with durabilty in mind. and if door bottoms rust, that was not an issue, and if sills rot, then they will. 50 years+ of existance As an aside, a rotting, unviewable Dino chassis, can be hazardous to your health. Your call!!! Happy New Year to all. Regards, Alberto
When these panels are opened up are we talking about "surface rust" or rot that will be fatal eventually ?
+ 1 on Albertos assesment and offer my view for the following question. Just like with any other 45+ year old car, it depends on a lot of variables, care/maintenance, climate(s) they've endured, indoor/outdoor storage (remember, one time or another they were all just used cars), etc. Most "coach built" cars, be it (vintage era) Ferrari production models like Dino or R-R Phantom I-VI weren't designed or made with a lot of thought given to longevity. One focused on performance and styling, while others on superb fit and finish, but all utilized methods, techniques and materials in their body construction not practical for durability or mass production.
I would be surprised if fatal rust is much of a concern with a Dino. Some unibody cars can rust fatally if their suspension pick up points rust away because replacing all that sheet metal is prohibitively costly. This usually occurs in cars that were driven in the wet, especially in winter salty roads. The vast majority of Dinos were never daily drivers exposed to salt water and they have a pretty sturdy frame, so I would be surprised if many have fatal rust. My '72 car was sold in Italy, imported to California in '76, and hasn't seen water (even washing) since '87 when I bought it. From inside the front wheel well you can see some surface rust on the outside (convex) surface of the headlight fairings, which I put Rust Reformer on many years ago. I looked thru the fiberglass undertray with an inspection scope and the central tunnel was not rusty. Unlike modern cars, these cars do not have inner fender liners, so you can see the inside surface of the fenders. You can see inside the doors by removing the door cards. I'm not sure where all this massive rust that people are talking about is hiding. I have lived in CA most of my life but lived in Chicago for 8 years back when cars were not rust protected. The life expectancy of non-rust protected cars in those two environments is dramatically different.
