360CS Starting issue.... Anybody like puzzles? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

360CS Starting issue.... Anybody like puzzles?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Ingenere, Aug 3, 2016.

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  1. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
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    Thanks. Its allot easier to see in the pic than in real life.

    All this is making me miss my old 308 and 348. They were easy.... electrically!
     
  2. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Yes, I can see that bent pin as we come across them from time to time underground in our trucks and loaders.

    And you are correct, the plug is often removed to look for another issue and the pins get bent when the plug is refitted.

    Then you chase another problem after that. lol

    The 308 and 348 is childs play electrically compared to a 360 Challenge Stradale.
     
  3. DM1

    DM1 Formula 3
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    Dino

    I hate to state the obvious but once you turn the key to start the car, do you wait a few seconds before you push the start button? Mine will do the same thing as yours if I don't wait those extra few seconds. As a rule I wait till the buzzard stops and then I push the start button, and then I don't touch the gas till it sets itself up and it comes up to idle. Just a thought.
     
  4. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
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    Dan: Thanks for your input. Yes, I wait.

    So, are you saying that your car will do the crank-stop-crank-stop, etc routine and then start in limp mode? (if it does at all)
     
  5. Keith360

    Keith360 Formula Junior

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    It reminds me of a class I took when I worked on the Space Shuttle Program, it was called "Connector Mate and De-mate". It required one to inspect the pins and sockets and the alignment pins or spines so that this kind of thing doesn't go unnoticed. Carefull alignment is a key factor. Don't rush the installation and take notice of the sounds when the connector mates.
     
  6. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
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    Straightened pin and installed. Car started and ran fine. Restart. Nada. Crank-stop-crank-stop.

    Swapped ECU's and result was the same.

    I have a feeling that the driver's side ECU is compromised. I located a spare ECU from a totaled CS. We are going to clone it with my car's data and give it another shot.
     
  7. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
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    I have obtained a used CS ECU and we are currently attempting to virginia the unit so that the car accepts it and we are running into a problem connecting to the ECU's.

    Has anyone done this, and can offer some help?

    Thanks
     
  8. Tony H

    Tony H Karting

    Sep 3, 2013
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    #33 Tony H, Nov 11, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2016
  9. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
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    The struggle continues....

    First a shout out of thanks to Trev360 for helping. I know between the 2 of us we will get this figured out. I really appreciate your time and efforts.

    Here's where I am at...

    After having the ECU's out and my software writer not being able to 'virginize' the spare CS ECU that I had purchased, I put the originals back in the car.

    Upon trying to start the car it went to crank-stop-crank-stop and fired up in limp mode. I pulled codes and misfires were 1-2-3-4. So, that says the passenger (right) bank could be the problem. If you look back in this thread, the driver's (left) side ECU had writing on it, as if it was a problem at one time or another.

    I subsequently started the car again and it lit up on all 8 and ran like a banshee! So, I took it out to get a little exercise! It was nice to drive it again.

    My question is if this is an ECU issue, is it the right side and not the left? Or, if these things go to limp mode do they always cut 1-4? Thanks in advance...
     
  10. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I chased a problem for a whole year. Finally an SD traced it down to an area previously deemed good by non-SD testing. I beat real hard on the area the SD pointed me to and that solved the problem. I don't remember reading in this saga that you ever put an SD on it. The SD can see things conventional tools just can't.
     
  11. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
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    SD? What is this?
     
  12. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    The Ferrari SD scan tool I think he is talking about.
     
  13. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido Formula 3
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    I did have the same issues with my mondial for years. Finally after changing 1 of the 2 coils it resolved itself.
    But your car has 8 coils...can't imagen that several have the same problem at the time...

    Guido
     
  14. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
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    I wish I had access to an SD2. I wouldn't go to our dealership as they are not good and aren't the most honest.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  15. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    But all you need to do is pay them for 1 hr labor get a read on your clutch while you are at it and just get data. You dont have to get them to fix anything. Besides you have run out of guesses to the point you got fchaters guessing. How much longer do you want the car down for? Your generic obd reader may miss proprietary codes that can give you the answer or narrow your focus.
     
  16. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
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    I really don't want it down anymore, but that is the problem when you have multiple cars, it's not critical if it takes a while to figure out.

    As much as I enjoy doing tis stuff, I am pretty much ready to let someone else have a go.
     
  17. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    What about the Leonardo scanners? Can't they get in-depth as far as the factory SDs do?
     
  18. belfry

    belfry Formula Junior

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    #43 belfry, Jan 5, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I had some hot starting issues with my Mother's mercedes. Mercedes forums suggested that I should look at the solder connections on the ecu. I attach a picture of the broken solder points, which expanded when the car got hot and reduced the electrical contacts.

    I resoldered 3 or 4 of them and re-fitted. Hey presto - all working again.

    I appreciate that this was a merc not a ferrari, but surely the same problem can occur on ferrari circuit boards? Worth considering?
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  19. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
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    #44 Ingenere, Jan 11, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    While I am waiting for someone else to have a go, it just might be getting narrowed down. It consistently does 1 of the following, with no rhyme or reason.

    1. Start and run fine
    2. Crank-stop-crank-stop...... start and run fine
    3. Crank-stop-crank-stop...... start in 'limp' mode
    4. Crank-stop-crank-stop...... no start

    When 2, or 3 happens I get the same 4 codes:

    random misfire
    misfire cylinder 1
    misfire cylinder 2
    misfire cylinder 3
    misfire cylinder 4
    P1571................ Active (sig), check the wiring

    We dug back and took a look at the immobilizer and the connections, cleaned everything, checked continuity, etc., and no real change. Could the immobilizer itself be the problem?
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  20. RXMR7

    RXMR7 Karting
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    First off i dont work on Ferrari's for a living, but having been around a few tuner cars with electrical problems similar to this i would say definately look into the immobilizer. Sounds as if your Immobilizer control unit or the relay that controls it may be no good.
     
  21. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
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    #46 Ingenere, Jan 15, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The last few times that the car threw the P1571 (immo code), got me looking more closely in that direction. I did a search for that code and several threads came up. One of the posters recommended a business in Australia (immofixer.com). I sent him an email, referencing this thread and 3 days later I got a phone call from OZ...

    He explained to me how the alarm siren module has an internal battery that can go bad, damaging the module's board, which in turn can send whacky messages to the immo and ECU's. He explained to test that component was simple..... disconnect it and see if the problem goes away. If it does..... there's your problem. If it doesn't, we need to look more closely at the immo itself.

    Long story short, I disconnected the siren and the car works perfectly. I did start and restart, drive, etc at least 30 times before putting the car back together.

    I can go one of two ways...... one..... leave it off as the car will work fine without it or replace it. Right now I am just happy this saga is over and the solution was found. A big thanks to everyone who has helped and especially immofixer.com.

    It's now back to the track for the CS......
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  22. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Wow! After all that. :D

    Great to hear you're back on the road man.

    Great pic too. :D
     
  23. ar4me

    ar4me F1 Rookie
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    Congrats on getting to the bottom of it!!! :)
     
  24. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Great news!!!! I think the c6 alarm siren work for ferrari and super cheap. I hate that siren i have been disconnected for years. So lame to find out something so simple can kill these cars. Too much incestuous stuff on the can line
     
  25. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
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    #50 Ingenere, Feb 9, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    After pulling that alarm siren and having the car start and run just fine for 30+ starts, I thought we were done. But as always, I've found that it's better for me not to have a thought!

    The next morning I decided to go get some gas. Car started as it should, I get gas and when I attempted to start the car and head home....... crank-stop-crank-stop-crank....limp mode!

    Frustrated, I get he car home and decide to have a rethink.

    There have been guys from 3 continents working on this with me. One of them is an Fchat regular..... 360Trev. Some of you know, he lives in the UK. He is quite knowledgable in electronics, software and how these cars are put together. What he has done with his 360 is quite brilliant. During one of our Skype calls, he said that he was going to be in the US and he thought it would be great to take a look at it himself.

    A lot of folks say they are going to do this or that, but I never hold them to what they say. I figure that it's just guys talking. Well, much to my surprise, I get a call from Trev. He was in the US and wanted to know if I was busy over the weekend and that he had packed some tools with him and that he wanted to come down. I wasn't just surprised, I was floored. Over the years I have gone some pretty far distances to help other Ferrari owners, but I never thought it would come around to me. I guess Karma has ways of coming back around.

    So, there I was..... 11pm at the airport. Was this real, or was I picking up an ax murderer! After meeting Trev, in 5 minutes I knew he was a real car guy and I invited him to spend the weekend.

    Long story, short. Trev did some amazing diagnostics. We narrowed the problem down to a failed relay on the board of the immobilizer. I have the relay(s) ordered, and the techs lined up to do the work.

    In the meantime, Trev figured out the proper pinouts, so we could bypass that particular relay and get the car to work.... and work it does! About 90% of the time!

    A HUGE thank you to 360Trev for going the extra mile to help another Ferrari guy. We worked on the CS, but at the end of the day, I think I made a friend for life.
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