Not sure it is easy, but certainly feasible. LaF's 800 PS from 6.3l is already 128hp/litre. The hy-KERS allows the engine to be tuned to a higher output albeit with a "peakier" delivery as the electrics take up the low-rpm slack. For the M, with no electric motor, I guess it is more about driveabilty. The trick seems to be getting sufficient air in for efficient combustion (assuming no forced induction) rather than materials/thermodynamics limiting the size. I am sure are there better qualified people here to comment.
You will regret the day Politicians turn their attention to sports cars Cuz it will lead to banning them Not making special requirements for the special few - Plus they are not elected to look after the 1% - just IMO
True. But as far as the forces on the internals go, I'm not entirely sure there would be a problem. The weight of the individual internals on the Italia engine and F12M engine should be pretty close. So if piston and rod weight and size is close to the same and the crank is supported accordingly in terms of mains, what would hinder the F12M engine from turning the same rpm? I know there's a bit more to it, but the reciprocating weight of these parts and the stability of the crank has a lot to say in terms of durability. Ferrari clearly don't need to use solid tappets or super steep lobe ramps to reach over 9000 rpm reliably on a street engine I'd say the Speciale is proof of that. My guess is that the emissions and production cost is the major factor in terms of how much power this new engine will make and how high it will rev.
Same output as what? There's a lot of unknowns when you ask like that. A basic way of looking at it is like this. When you increase the size and weight of the internals, you start a chain of big and small issues you need to address. When using a larger piston, it gets heavier. Then you need a rod that can handle that, which will also increase windage loads in the crank case etc. Then you need a crank that can handle those loads and added twisting force. You need larger heavier valves that puts bigger demands on the valve springs, which with their higher pressure is harder on the cam lobes in terms of wear and parasitic loss. See where I'm going? All these additions and changes mean the engine will be less efficient, as the power needed to turn the engine in the first place increases along with other factors. As a rule of thumb, when engine displacement increases, efficiency goes down due to the above mentioned factors. There are of course exceptions to this rule, but generally speaking, this is the case. The challenge here is then to engineer the new larger engine with the same efficiency as the smaller displacement engine.
So where do you draw the line? A 100 bhp car at speed in the hands of an idiot can cause a lot of damage as well.......
Don't deny that, just that motorcycles, aviation etc have tiers. Not wanting that ! Agree that ban on exotics would be enticing to the meddlers but hopefully US constitution would support resistance !
I have been following this F12M chat for some time. I have an F12B order in that will start soon. I can pull this order and go for the F12M but am told will take over 2 years to get to me. I am 50 and love the simple beauty of the F12B. I'm not interested in a more aggressive looking car but sure would love to get a better idea of what this new car will look like. I know the dealer is going to let me know any day now that Ferrari has started my car. This is a once in a lifetime purchase for me and I don't want to make a mistake. I would hate to spend this amount of money and be disappointed. I also want to buy new and be present at the plant for the unveiling. I know at this time the F12B is the most beautiful car I have ever seen. What would you guys do? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
In the US we view freedoms differently, it's not about the Constitution..because here we don't put up with the socialist BS you guys tolerate in Europe (though asking for tiered horsepower permissions seems to be "begging for" socialist control rather than tolerating it). Government doesn't protect you from yourself. Enough P&R.
Don't worry. Won't be long before humans are banned from driving altogether. 16 Questions About Self-Driving Cars https://vimeo.com/198256576
in 50 years, people will not comprehend that human beings were actually in control of a two ton vehicle, which passed each other in the opposite direction, separated only by a painted line on the road.
The F12B is a terrific car and you will not be disappointed. There is no question that the new car will be better. but that means nothing. A 458 Speciale is better than a 360CS but I still enjoy my CS and sold my 458S Coupe. The only thing you should watch is the price : get a discount and expect steeper depreciation
Read your own post. You are over 50 and don't want to wait years to get the purchase of a lifetime. You have no interest in a more aggressive looking car (that the F12M unanimously agreed will be). The F12B is the most beautiful car you have ever seen. So, is 60 hp more worth all that? If your purchase is a keeper then I would certainly stay on plan as words cannot describe the spectacle of a factory unveil of a custom made F12B. Truly an accomplishment. But if your a flipper then you gotta go with the economics of the flip. Of course, then you will have to keep the mileage to about 1500 and put it up for trade in a year to avoid the big gulp common with all production Ferraris.
Hi Jeff. I'm in exactly the same position as you. I have an F12b for March Production. I also have an order for a F12M but I wouldn't see that car until end of 2018, more likely early 2019, almost two years away. I initially looked at used F12b but couldn't find a spec I liked and besides here in the UK used prices are very strong even on early cars. So I decided to go new and enjoy 2 years in a berlinetta. Not really a hardship! I'm 45 and hopefully have time to enjoy a few more F cars but you never know what's round the corner. I know I'll take a hit on the F12b. Years ago that would have gone against my mentality but if of course you can afford it, why not, you can't take it with you when you die. It will be strange seeing the replacement to my car before mine is even delivered but as its Ferrari I don't mind. There is no doubt the M will be an awesome car and probably great looking too but the F12b is almost guaranteed classic status as the last Pininfarina design and what a design it is. Good luck whatever you do.
https://twitter.com/Ferrari/status/824890949591371776 A vision of temptation. Possibly a teaser about brand new F152m?
probably a new video for GTC4 LUSSO T. They are making a new promo video https://www.instagram.com/p/BPlTpKJBW-z/?tagged=gtc4lussot https://www.instagram.com/p/BPlTzV9BQWH/?tagged=gtc4lussot https://www.instagram.com/p/BPlTuppBDPU/?tagged=gtc4lussot
Full autonomy will be hugely appealing to urban planners: no traffic lights, optimizing space and time (more passenger miles/less time), less pollution. Companies like Uber are already gearing up for this world. We will not buy cars, we will rent space like airline seats, hotels etc. Ferrari will be a boutique hotel equivalent with rental costs commensurate with the brand experience. The changes to the motor industry will be profound (sales, service, dealers may disappear). Land owners may provide private tracks where old timers can drive their classic cars and talk about the good old days. But given the huge social benefits of full autonomy (and the powerful firms already racing into that space) major cities around the world - including the US - will inevitably ban humans from driving as a mix of full autonomy and human self drive is unworkable. We will buy the new F12M because it will be a superb car. I will keep my cars because I adore them and because full autonomy is several years away. If the values of classics/LEs fall, as they will one day assuming full autonomy, cést la vie. But anyone buying cars today thinking in 10-15 years times they'll be sitting in LE heaven need to keep a very close eye on the bigger picture. Until then, we'll enjoy the thoroughly non-rational glorious world of a Ferrari V12.
...and in the 1960s everyone was certain we'd all be using flying cars by 2000 just like the Jetsons.
F12b one of the greats and M will only be a tiny bit better in some respects, so what? You can always make more money, you can never make more time.
TOTALLY ALIGNED ON YOUR THINKING AND YOUR PRESENTATION, ESPECIALLY THE NON CO-EXISTENCE OF AUTONOMOUS AND SELF DRIVE. THAT CANT WORK, EXCEPT MAYBE NON-URBAN. THAT MEANS A REAL CLIFF EDGE FOR VALUES. MY HESITATION IS THAT EVERYTHING IS HAPPENING 5 TIMES AS QUICK AS I EXPECTED. WEST COAST US ENERGY AND CAPITAL NEVER TO BE UNDER ESTIMATED....... CAR DEALERS ARE IN MASSIVE DENIAL.
Correct, time is our only true commodity. Money is just stored work or time. How much time of your life is a man willing to trade for something? Looking at it that way will give a better perspective on value.
Agreed. I think my point is also a cost/ profit margin point which is not that they can do it but also at what cost/ profit margin. I think Ferrari has always found ways to be profitable but its even more important now as a public company. The pressure to show quarterly profit growth must be immense. This is so well said. Jeff, here is how I look at it, in addition to what Traveller, Solid State, George330, deltona and some of the others (sorry if I left anyone out) said above. If you get the F12b now, you will have it to enjoy now and you will guarantee having one of the most beautiful modern Ferraris built to your specification. This beauty point is subjective but that's how I see it. The point about your specification matters if you are particular about such things. If you are going to order a typical spec like Silverstone/Cuoio (which is lovely btw) then you could probably save some money and buy a pre owned one. I bring this up only because this would make changing out for the F12M less costly in the future. I had a similar decision to make and I went for the F12b. I ordered it to my spec because I am very particular about specification. This does not make the F12b a better car. I am pretty sure they are going to make sure the F12M is a better car. But it was a better choice for me. The beauty and the Pininfarina link really matter to me. The F12b is also the last front engine NA V12 designed by Pininfarina. This appeals to me as someone who appreciates Ferrari history. I'm not sure it will matter to the market place, at least not in the immediate future. And the performance is far beyond what I can use on the public roads anyway. However, the consequence of my decision is a greater realized loss if I ever sell my car as a trade for an F12M. Thats why I bring up the pre-owned route as an option to at least give some consideration.
