2 valve GTSi, performance upgrades?

Everything from headers back, no air pump. Noticeable difference. Non scientific, but prior to change, my friend's Carrera would pull my 308 from a 70 mph roll, not anymore. No, it isn't fast by modern standards(i have fire breathing Corvette's and Hemis for that purpose), but it is more enjoyable to drive.

 

I'm not joking. In my opinion the 308 it's a better looking car then the 250 GTO and the 308 saved the Ferrari: here FIAT wanted to make tractors in the mid seventies in the Ferrari plant, because they losed money with F cars. The big sale success 308 had (expecially with the 308 GTS in the USA, where up to 70% 308 GTS production went), saved the factory.

250 GTO did not save Ferrari, 308 did. If today there still is Ferrari, please say thanks to 308 GTB and 308 GTS, not to 250 GTO.



ciao

 

Apples and oranges...

 

I like both

ciao

 

Agreed,

I've personally done everything from minor upgrades to full blown 4L displacement engine builds. The least expensive option for power is tie between changing out the CIS to EFI and electronic ignition or simply bolting on a supercharger and retaining the CIS, the only difficulty with the latter is that the CIS system needs to be adjusted to compensate for the increased air mass. It's better to swap over to EFI with a blower and really make more power.

In any case it's going to cost, min starting point is ~$15k. For those wondering why anyone would do this? until you've driven a 308 or 328 with a solid 350HP at your disposal words just don't explain it very well. The chassis responds very well with 300~400 HP and takes the enjoyment to a whole new level. HP beyond 400 starts to highlight areas that need some attention to keep smile on your face from turning into an :O

 

I recomend, for those who like 350 or 400 hp, to sell the 308 and buy a 355 (380 hp) or a 360 (400 Hp) or a 430 (490 hp). Many of them cost the same or less than a good carbed 308 and not much more than a 308 2v injected.

Less money than modify a 308 that will lose value too

308 stops at 240 hp.

ciao

 

Alberto here's a bolt-on supercharge kit that's on my friends 85QV. 350 HP and no problem keeping up with the 355. He had this car for over ten years now and it still running great. Way cheaper than buying a 355, less than 7k for the kit, well that was before price maybe more now.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Mike, i don't know there, but here a 360 costs 50-60 k

Ciao

 

Ummm, NOPE!

While the 355, 360 & 430 are great models in their own right, they are not and can not be a substitute for the 308 & 328. The 355 is far too heavy in the rear to be anywhere as balanced as the 308, the 360 is MASSIVE in body size and heavy, the 430 is finally a step in the right direction but now we've go so far into the modern age that electronics abound and detract from the raw visceral feel of the simplicity the 308 has.

If owners were as concerned about future value and not modifying the 308 then I wouldn't be so busy with designing developing and building engines for the 308/328 series. A LOT of owners want more power and don't want to substitute it with a new model. The speculative buyer looking to flip for a profit has other wants and is frankly not my concern, they are welcome to spend their days wiping the body with a diaper and detailing the under carriage while the passionate owner is out driving the wheels off theirs and has zero interest in ever selling.

Here's something to ponder, if OEM condition is a value that is to be prized then why are the owners of the current models modifying them so thoroughly? The demand for parts and modifications on new models is astounding, and the costs at that level are eye watering in comparison to the 308.

 

Smg2, everyone can use his money as he wants: So, If you want you can do any upgrade, of course. But the 430 is a faster and safer car than any upgraded 308, on an handling track. Here in Europe we don't consider too much the drag times, we consider much more the Nurburgring lap times. Yes I know, USA is not Europe, you like more than us mods. I just wrote my opinion as Italian, I'm learning here that there are other worlds, where what is a nonsense here there is appreciated. And vice versa. This is an advantage of a world forum like Fchat: I appreciate it very much, as you learn to see at things from another point of view. We (me, you, Italians, Europeans, Americans and so on) should always consider that there isn't just an only answer good for everyone and everywhere. So, the bolt on supercharger is a good idea on the USA and not here. Here is better to change car than modify it (you can be prosecuted, insurance doesn't cover you anymore, you cannot pass the MOT inspection). MOT doesn't like mods here. I think that in USA it's exactly the contrary, who knows.

Ciao

 

If you want to keep your car stock and slow, that is your right. If you want to question other's choices to upgrade the performance of their cars that they love, that is your right too. You just come across as condescending/near sighted... maybe even willfully ignorant.
I LOVE the 308's looks, balance, analog feel. I wanted couple that with performance so I did. I now have the car I want with the performance that I want.
Many people want FAST 308's, not fast 355's, not fast mustangs, not fast 360's.
Get it?

 

On my 1980 GTSI I installed a Tubi muffler, removed the cats, and removed the air-pump.

My mechanic said that it now "feels like" a QV but I wouldn't know (or care) because I never drove one.

I drove my friends 328 many times. Although I can definitely tell that the 328 has a more powerful motor, I don't think that it is THAT much powerful/faster than my 308...not enough to matter much either way....plus in the 308 I don't have to look at those ugly plastic switches and orange gauges

IMHO, unless you do a Nick's motore upgrade, I think that we are splitting hairs here.

 

dont forget to thank fiat too....

 

In the USA we have been modifying cars for over 100 years. Model T Ford Speed and Racing Equipment Part I ? The Early Pioneers | The Old Motor

We modify to make them faster, look better and in some cases make them more reliable. smg2 has been involved with improving 328/308 parts. Fixing what the factory didn't do.

 

It's no different anywhere else in the world. People have been modifying cars for pretty much as long as cars have been around. The difference is you can get away with modifications in the U.S. that would never be allowed in places like Europe or particularly Germany. Want to put half inch wheel spacers on your car in Germany? They better be approved and you better have the documentation showing they are approved, in your glovebox. Just one example.

see link: http://www.h-r.com/bin/DR5L.pdf

 

I'll get laughed off this forum but I hate seeing these cars molested. If it's not fast enough and you're not one to accept the model for what it was/is, sell it to someone who wants to preserve the car and buy something more to your liking. My two cents.

 

Maybe I'm a being sensitive about this but I'd like to think that what I do is not considered something as violent and crass as molestation to the 308's.

I have ZERO problems with anyone who wishes to retain the as is from the factory condition.

 

I guess it depends upon what you do. Remember criticism often reveals far more about the critic than the subject in question.

I'm in the camp that these cars should be left as they are . . . within reason . . . sure make "learned" improvements, but remember they are rare enough to begin with.

I realize that my perspective is more narrow than many, and that most probably do not agree with me . . . but then again it's not like I'm so hard line on this that I turn my nose up at all mods. Certainly a chassis taken into competition resides outside my prejudice.

In the end, for whatever reasons that contributed to the 308 being the under-performer that it is . . . those reasons were the product of a time and pressures that no longer exist. The 308 literally saved Ferrari from extinction.

 

My opinion is this: If you think your vintage Ferrari is not fast enough, you bought the wrong car.
A vintage car is a piece of history. It means It's obsolete in every piece, not only in top power. So, my question is: Why do you just want to modify the engine power? The car is a disaster everywhere: Brakes, gearbox, lights, A/C, aerodynamic, suspensions, rims, wipers, radio, corrosion protection, safety equipment and so on. The 488 has them all as standard. And even a new Ford Mustang, that even costs less than a 308 2vi. Do you want "fast 308"? There is the 288 GTO, that is much faster, a sort of factory tuned 308.

So, I already learned that there is someone who likes to mod cars even if they are a piece of Italian art and history. But my opinion is different. There is not written anywhere what is correct and what is not while there is written everywhere that everyone can have his opinion.

The important thing is another one: Please express your opinion in the correct way, as a Ferrari owner should always do when talking with another Ferrari owner. Thank you very much.

Ciao

 

If I expressed my opinion in a less than correct way, my apologies

 

ben affermato

 

No, you didn't, don't worry.

Ciao

 

Well yes, but as said by Alberto, the car would simply not be allowed on the roads here. It should first be approved again by the department of transportation in an case by case inspection ("réception a titre isolé") for which chances are very slim, and then approved by your insurance company, for which chances are about zéro. This explains at least in part (no pun intended...) That we do not have the culture of modification. To the best of my modest knowledge in That matter, the only country open to This in Europe is the UK (??).
Rgds

 

Interesting. This explains a lot.

I have been enjoying restoring my 308 to exact factory condition, but I completely understand why people want to customize cars. Individuals make modifications that they think will enhance the driving experience for them. People buy the 308 steering wheel spacer just because their body dimensions are different than the dimensions Ferrari used in cockpit design.

My BMWs have heavily modified suspension systems and those modifications have enhanced the driving experience for me. BMW was designing for an average consumer who apparently enjoys a softer ride and more body roll than I do.

The debate should be about where the point is where modification is attempting to change one car into a different car. Certainly making a 308 Mitchelotto reproduction is over that line, but if it is allowed by DOT/MOT rules, l don't know why we should have a "problem" with it.

 

AFAIK in the UK it has to conform to appropriate safety and emissions standards for the vehicle and year of manufacturer, but apart from that I think you just need to advise the DVLA and your insurer of any changes. In the case of the DVLA I think that would only be things like cc and engine numbers.

I think they are clamping down on some of the modifications (turning coupes into open cars based on the same chassis for example) but even then you can get them re-registered by passing the replica/kit car test.