Differences in parts between QV FI and QV DD engines?

Its very strange indeed,one can suggest the fi would run with the dd ,if given a better exhaust And loosing the heavy bumpers,No factory correct claim,just a peformance mod to make the fi a faster car, and possibly run with the dd,no value sugg or factory correct. The reply will then be a story on how much faster a dd is than a fuelie ,both in factory correct trim, as delivered from the factory.claiming fuelie owners do not know the meashure of difference between this two cars ,and we are in denial reg this, when in fact we are refering in details to a modified fuelie ,exhaust and bumper loss. The following post will then be from one of the 5 or so regulars in the rump slickers fan club,praising the post for its exelent corectness, its an effing comedy show.

 

Here it is.
Dennis' Lamborghini Page

 

Yes.. 421 rwhp... vs my Diablo with sport exhaust made 414rwhp.

 

I think it is Rich Ceppos whose short-term memory was fuzzy, as he ascribed the numbers from the "Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection" car which was owned by GM to that of the European car owned by Ford!

Magazines mix things up all the time, that's why you need to corroborate from multiple tests, but I think his estimation that the Fuelie felt like 370 bhp agrees with mine

I think we have all had enough fun with this debate, and its not going anywhere in particular.

The Fuelie guys will always say "they are practically the same, there is no difference!

The Downdraft guys will always say: "there is a big difference, its Night & Day (as you like to say)!"

Yes, they are all Countachs, be happy with what you have, because, guess what? It's what you have.

All is good.

 

Its laughable that you wont admit that you are wrong about the Car And Driver article. It would be more believable to think that they never tested the U.S. car, as in the article there are no less than 2 dozen pics of the DD.... with one fuzzy pic of the U.S. car. Coincidentally, as you posted the pics as well, its the DD that they show with the 5th wheel strapped to it as well. Regardless its 100% that the top speed shown was in the DD, that was owned by GM. Please show us the Ford DD info, I can only assume that they were using theirs as a benchmark for the new Foxbody.
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I do agree that you must the magazine articles to fully understand things that transpired. There is actually one other test of a U.S. QV, more then likely the same test car used by Car and Driver, a red wingless QV. If you look at the Road and Track Top Speed article, youd think Phil Hill tested a TR, QV and 288 GTO. If you read the article you find out he only drove the TR, and 288. The QV was unavailable at the time . The first editor they later tried to use to test the QV couldnt fit in the car, so a third was chosen. One who had never driven a car over 135mph, let alone trying for top speed coming out of an oval...

But yet.. somehow he managed to record.... 173mph in a U.S. qv fuelie... a full 7mph faster than Car and Driver was able to record for a European DD.... So if a U.S Qv only has around 390hp... A DD must be more like 350hp.
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Additionally from the Road and Track test, here is the Curb and Test weight of the U.S. Fuelie.
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And lastly, further illustrations of the facts I brought up in regards to differences in how the cars are tested.. Ie Valentino Balboni in Euro tests... Vs 3rd rate editors .. Euro mags clearly showing the best way to launch the Countach is by dropping the clutch, while certain U.S. mags would not use this method. Joe claiming he has never heard of people stretching redline to get 0-60 in first gear, yet its clearly printed in his favorite article where a guy tests the top speed of a DD while sitting in the passenger seat, using a stop watch timing in between Km posts.. lol Oddly, even Fast Lane makes light of the U.S. car being strangled by catalytic converters...
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Thanks EarlyCat that explains a lot.

PineChris this is far from an EFI and a distributorless ignition system modification only. Dennis increased the compression ratio, changed the cams, put on a performance exhaust, and most likely had some valve work done since the engine was blueprinted. The two items you listed only aid in tuning, they do not change the horsepower potential. All the other modifications I listed will make a substantial difference. Depending on the details of what was done, Dennis could easily be making DD power or more.

Cheers Jim

 

None of this matter at all. Please find us another 12cy, 4v, 4 cam engine with 6 webers. You cant, it doesnt exist.

FI 4v V12s are a dime a dozen in automotive history, thats the truth.

Talk about unique.....

This thread was a differences thread that you both turned into a pissing contest. No need to defend yourselves or the car. The FI is what it is and im confident going forward anyone looking into the Countach variants will "understand" the real difference and significance with the DD. Peace out.

 

Or understand the significance with the Countach, 4 valve 2 valve fi or carb, it is the car that matters, it created history, based on its looks and styling, carb s where everywhere at the time, and fi systems,well we all know that story, lets honor the Countach for its contribution to Automotive history, nothing even comes close, one day we will all realise this. My advice, run out and buy one,wich ever model, who cares.

 

Just put an EFI and Distributorless ignition on one and try it out.. I did... Then tell me what you think...

LOL at Dennis could be making DD power... or he could be making MUCH MUCH MORE

 

No thanks that is not something I am interested in. All I can do is to agree to disagree with you on this.

Cheers Jim

 

Members of the Fuelie Owners Club are not of open-minded disposition, in their Club by-laws agreeing to disagree is not allowed, and when presented with something superior, the Club's required standard response is - ours is the same

 

Jeez RELAX, you are taking this all far too seriously , perhaps you missed the notice of humor I gave a number of posts ago

I'll be honest with you I havent read any of the posts you've made that proffer material to attempt to support your claims, as Jim says, let's agree to disagree, just enjoy your Countach for what it is, we should all be grateful to have a Countach - any Countach.

 

From the perspective of the Downdraft engine's mechanical specification, the car is peerless, its a benchmark motor amongst not just Countachs or Lamborghinis but amongst sports cars, it stands head & shoulders above anything I can think of in terms of Supercars, its configuration is the Holy Grail of sports car specifications, its the Godfather, the King.

CAR magazine's October 2012 offering was simply titled: "Gods" It covered the most important sports cars over the past 50 years of CAR's existence. That a Downdraft was picked by a panel to be featured with the mighty Ferrari 250 GTO and McLaren F1 says it all.

As a certain Countach Connoisseur said so eloquently on another thread:

"The Downdraft could possibly be the ultimate evolution of a car (any car) from the invention of the automobile to the DD..."

Yes, you are right, they are unique, and I predict that in years to come, just how so will be more appreciated.

 

If Lamborghini didn't have to make the big bumper QV FI to comply do you think they would have so soon? Obviously the U.S. was a very important market so they did . It marks the beginning of a new era so you could say that we were getting the early stages of the next generation of Lamborghini. It was impressive what they did for their first shot with the 4v but let's face it there was a long way to go with development.

The DD on the other hand was the ultimate evolution of the carb 4v 12cyl. The end all be all. Look to other manufacturers from that time and you can't even think of something carbureted so powerful and special. There is absolutely no comparison anywhere. 512 BB?...No.

They are 2 different models belonging to a long run of the worlds most special production car.

The market would probably(worldwide appeal, more players etc.) give a nod to the DD over time as well. So if a DD was worth 2.5mm 10 years from now and an FI was 1.5mm it still would be great for any current owner.

I say enjoy what you have ... a properly maintained FI car is one helluva undervalued fun to drive collector car that makes people extremely excited to see in the wild as you owners know.

Collectors will break the models down for desireability but the average car fanatic will go crazy for any variant.

Anyone who has one , I congratulate you.

 

good post,respectful oppinion,yours, also reg the 512,bb totally agree.never driven a 512,but had the perfect scenario driving my fuelie to a car show,then driving my friends 365 bb back to his house ,and after everything ,driving my car back home, two entirely different animals ,bb felt like a tamed station vagon in comparo,my Countach was extremely more powerful ,angry,and responsive, had no ide,Huge difference. Also ,this was a perfectly maintained BB.

 

I totally agree on the BB...The Lambo is so under appreciated. The Boxer is so tame compared to any Countach.. I think the tide is turning on the recognition of these cars and I also agree that holding any of the variants will prove to be an enjoyable, fun and most likely profitable experience. No one can predict after expenses that holding the cars will bring you a meaningful return but it sure will be more fun than investing in your index fund....

Many of the Ferrari fanatics look back to the glory days of racing as the fuel to their reasoning for high values. I think for the typical Lamborghini owner, they are younger and will be around for a bit longer and could really care less about the racing history of Ferrari.

For the Lamborghini owner, it was all about having the most extreme and wild machines on the planet earth. The Miura drove the first nail into Ferrari and the Countach obliterated the thought of any Ferrari as competition for the ultimate dream machine for children of the 80s. And beyond . Without the Countach, it would be very interesting to see the offerings from the other manufacturers today.

 

I am a huge Lambo fan - however I must acknowledge that Ferrari has made and is still making today some fantastic cars as well!

 

The thing is Lambo made really groundbreaking cars in that era. Performance and styling wise.

Everything Ferrari did in those days was a reaction to the Miura and Countach. In this sense, and if you care about historical significance of purpose built street driven supercars, then these are the cars to have. It started it all.

 

on this matter i have what may look a singular opinion

while i much like a quattrovalvole since almost forever, i think there are some more other sportcars that needs to be considered mechanical benchmarks, for one reason or an other or for more reasons toegether

in not particular order, for example, i would put in that list:

- 300SL
- miura
- countach LP400
- 288 GTO
- F40
- Bugatti EB110
- Mc Laren F1
etc...

for everyone of these i can tell one or more reasons to be in this list, but to not annoy anyone i go on


if i had to choose one single variant countach model to put in this list, and i believe one should be there....i think is the LP400 that should fit in

why ?

because i consider the quattrovalvole an evolution of the original countach
to be more precise the quattrovalvole is the evolution of the first evolution

i look at the quattrovalvole as a development of the countach S (400s or 5000S)
in a different way the S is an evolution of the original LP400

we can tell the LP400S is important because it added the wide tyres, new suspensions to the LP 400..... or we can say the quattrovalvole is important because it added a bigger, multivalve engine to the S ...

but imo the LP400 is the original "concept", the original we should mention in this special company

my 0.02

 

to make more power to the wheels than a diablo i think this car has more modifications
i think a sport exhaust, different manifolds, head worcks etc....

not sayng is not possible and not sayng Dennis yellow countach is not more powerfull, but i really think there is more on this engine that made it so powerfull than few minor "bolts on" mods


a diablo is heavier than a countach, but to get the same or more power from ANY countach engine i really believe you need at least to open the engine or put it "under pressure"

 

this is all very much true....... UNTIL the F40

i could have said the 288 GTO, but, while an impressive machine and probably a bit quicker than a quattrovalvole, it was not "groundbreaking" and ICONIC as the F40

as a lambo guy, i must admit the importance of the F40: is a milestone in supercars history imo....EVERY child dreamed of it as they did with the countach before

 

I will agree with you to the to the absolute max.The lp 400 periscopa is,to me ,the definition of the super car design ,as we know it.i saw its picture in a magazine early 70 s, it blew me away,
The rear wheel arches, are, in my oppinion ,an automotive design masterstroke,and its overall design is pure and amazing. My paycheck is design,amongst others, mostly marine, (altough more bussiness than fun these days reg amount of empoyees) i absolutely will vote the lp 400 as "The supercar design" bravo ,never really understood the fasination with the 288 gto,i drove one not to long ago, cool car,but ,not a chance against the Countach, f 40 is to me a crappy buildt kit car,worst fit and finish ever, cool i suppose, to somebody,just not me.