456 M GT - RM Auctions Arizona

What a great beginning Eric, congrats on a beautiful car!

 

When I followed the original link, it reports this 456M GT (ZFFWL44A710124619) went for $148,500. How much was related to 1) auction environment; 2) low miles; 3) color combo? Michael Sheehan was looking for an older 456 GT manual; I said I was happy with mine and would not consider less than $65K (breakeven) ...I'm pretty sure he considered that significantly over market (even for an excellent condition "driver" with 40K miles, up-to-date maintenance, but having some "history", as it were). I tend to agree with his articles on owners having dreams of the worth of their own cars inflated by recent auction prices.

 

Thanks, Killer. I'm pretty thrilled. Now seriously anxious for spring!!

 

We can be in agreement over most of what you said, but I don't recall that article I posted from Autoweek supporting 30% of production as manual for USA import. My post of that was in support of my 10% premise, or approximately 40 USA manual 456M GT cars.

I still believe that manual transmission M cars for the USA are much lower than your 90 car portrayal.

I have kept track of every manual M car offered for public sale since sale of these cars in the USA and I don't believe from that experience and that of what I know and have read, that manual imports to the USA are as high as you say. 456's and M cars in particular have been a personal favorite of mine.

There was some subsequent info that came to light in another thread or two, including info posted by Terry, that lent value to the idea that manual M cars in the USA could be as high as 50 or 60, but I am still lead to maintain that that, without conclusive proof, manual M cars within the USA reside in the area of 40 units, with a potential for perhaps as high as 50 or 60.

I also am only responding to M cars- which were imported here for 4 years, '99- '03. ('95 cars were entirely manual, no '96's and thereafter someone may know the split but I don't)

I don't remember and cannot point to specific evidence as to what I contend, but my memory from much input of different sources over the years has lead me the thoughts I've here shared.

 

The Autoweek article was a prediction by somebody, not an actual production count. As such, suspect. Matthias Urban can print out a list of all the 456Ms he has data on and someone can count the US GTs and GTAs if they are interested. I posted data before and nobody was interested enough to do the math. With no 456M, no dog in the fight for me. If I had to guess, I would say somewhere between 100 and 130 M GTs were imported.

 

Terry,
I did take the listings that you published and did the math. I found my notes from when I did a quick bit of analysis during my car hunt...

42 MGTA, 30 MGT through MY 01 so from 98-01, percentage Manual is ~42%
Distributed approx. equal across MY production year to year
From above posts, total 456M to US across 5 MY (98-2003) is 317 according to NHTSA data.
Therefore, 317*.42 = 133 Manual MGT in US. Equals ~ 26 MGTs per model year

Now, whether this is correct (and I'm sure that listing you were using continues on through end of production??) Or the number is as low as 30-40 as MoeD suggests, the debate is between exceptionally rare and total unicorn. As others have pointed out, I bought it to drive it anyway.

As it turns out, I am owner #4 of 132381 (Assy 50100), so that can go in whatever data bases someone may be keeping.

And thank you, gentlemen. Your thoughts, maundering, and knowledge concerning the brand and the model have certainly been very useful in my education and hunt. It has indeed been a long time between cars, my last was many years ago (mid to late 70s) with a 250 GTE. I guess I am stricken with 2+2 fever and it has never abated.

 

Thank you I have added it to my internet assembled XL data base.
Sno 133044 was the last for which I have my dough's, but who knows how the numbering goes and how they are identified online, some serial numbers are all over the place.
So they made 663 cars after yours???

 

I seriously doubt that! The car was manufactured in May of '03 and must be dang close to the end of the model. It didn't sell to its first owner in Ohio until April Fool's Day, 2005.

She's just a teenager, really. But there can't have been 663 after her, there were barely that many of the M in total and only 317 ever made it to the US. (According to NHSTA).

Serial numbers will undoubtedly remain a mystery except to the three hooded wizards in the back room wearing robes, hoods, and burning candles to the summoned spirit of the All-Powerful Enzo!!

 

Eric- Affirmative, the data did go on, but that was as far as I got. If really interested, I can ask Matthias for a print-out of all 456Ms.

 

Terry I agree I am very suspicious about just how many cars are made by Ferrari.

You would be interested to know my list only has these cars after yours, but this list as I said if from various web sources
132381 2003
132383 2003
132384 2003
132385 1999
188456 2002

But as I said "Wicki" identifies 133044 as the last, I dought that very much.
My only thinking that the last six digits are not directly related to on model or someone is cooking the books

 

Terry, if you could, I would be happy to do any further analysis. It is kind of entertaining, and Graeme's serial number data base does show a certain randomness to the assignment of
s/n. So, sure, if it's not a big pain for anybody.

 

[/QUOTE]You would be interested to know my list only has these cars after yours, but this list as I said if from various web sources
132381 2003
132383 2003
132384 2003
132385 1999
188456 2002

But as I said "Wicki" identifies 133044 as the last, I dought that very much.
My only thinking that the last six digits are not directly related to on model or someone is cooking the books[/QUOTE]

And this was on the verge of making sense....381 to 383 and 384 all in 2003...and then 385 is from 1999??

And of course 188456 from 2002 makes no sense whatsoever.

I have read that Ferrari's use of s/n is from an assigned block and they can apportion them as they see fit. Once upon a time, I believe even numbers were competition cars and odd numbers were production/street cars but that stopped a long time ago. Now, it appears the wizards in the back room assign them to bolster confusion and laugh heinously in delight as the rest of use struggle to find meaning...

 

My 2002 456M GT is SN128018, AN45301

 

Well that makes a least a bit of numeric/time sense. Your car, being built a year earlier than my '03, has a lower SN and a lower AN!

See how they sow the seeds of confusion by actually making us think it is sequential and makes sense? And then the 1999 will have a later number.....Buwahahah...evil wizards

 

You would be interested to know my list only has these cars after yours, but this list as I said if from various web sources
132381 2003
132383 2003
132384 2003
132385 1999
188456 2002

But as I said "Wicki" identifies 133044 as the last, I dought that very much.
My only thinking that the last six digits are not directly related to on model or someone is cooking the books[/QUOTE]

And this was on the verge of making sense....381 to 383 and 384 all in 2003...and then 385 is from 1999??

And of course 188456 from 2002 makes no sense whatsoever.

I have read that Ferrari's use of s/n is from an assigned block and they can apportion them as they see fit. Once upon a time, I believe even numbers were competition cars and odd numbers were production/street cars but that stopped a long time ago. Now, it appears the wizards in the back room assign them to bolster confusion and laugh heinously in delight as the rest of use struggle to find meaning...[/QUOTE]

I As I find cars I add them in there sequence list and leave the associated build date as identified by the source, and some don't make sense at all, I tend to think the serial number is more reliable than the date.
Going back to my list i just realised that these sno are Schmacker eddition which begs the question how many did they make? and were they an order or just the last cars?

132383 2003 456M GT - GTA grey/black daytona LHD 50A SCHUMACHER EDITION
132384 2003 456M GT - GTA grey/black daytona LHD 50A SCHUMACHER EDITION
132385 1999 456M GT - GT grey/black LHD 44A SCHUMACHER EDITION

 

For those that did not already know this, serial numbers/VINs are assigned as part of the ordering process. Oftentimes clumped, but with relatively rare Ferraris, like the 456M, often in singles. Assembly numbers, however, are not assigned until a Ferrari reaches the assembly line. Because of this, it is quite common to have Ferraris with higher SNs than other Ferraris with lower ANs if something slowed down a particular Ferrari from reaching the assembly line (non-standard paint, option part out of stock, etc). My list of 575M SNs and ANs shows this quite plainly.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

You, sir, are a wealth of good information and it is appreciated. On the other hand, you always have enough obscure info that one suspicions you may well be one of the wizards....

Thanks, Terry.

 

Terry, thank you for that inside, is the first time I have read that explination.
It also helps explain the "build dates"