How many 458 Italias with original ecu and exhaust crackles? | Page 6 | FerrariChat

How many 458 Italias with original ecu and exhaust crackles?

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by 458trofeo, Feb 2, 2017.

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  1. 2006m5

    2006m5 Formula Junior

    Dec 19, 2008
    912
    huntingdon valley PA
    Ok thanks
     
  2. Azzuro Blue

    Azzuro Blue Karting

    Feb 23, 2006
    241
    West Palm, FL
    Open Flash, In a thread I started on trying to replicate the run-on, I made this post and received the following response which I thought was rather rude. Is what I suggested or something similar as idiotic as some believe?

    Originally Posted by Azzuro Blue:
    So if it is extra fuel burning in the exhaust, shouldn't it be possible to sense high vacuum conditions (deceleration) which would then do something to cause the ECU to enrich the air/fuel ratio. Perhaps changing the input from the temperature sensor could work since I believe a cold engine runs richer.
    This may not be the best way to do it but it seems that it should somehow be possible to change input signals tricking the ECU into sending more fuel to the engine.

    Response by Jasone:
    You are kidding right? Please put a smiley face at the end of your posts so we know your not technically challenged.
     
  3. OpenFlash Performance

    Mar 3, 2016
    187
    SF Bay, CA
    Full Name:
    Shiv Pathak
    Could you link me to the discussion thread?
     
  4. 458trofeo

    458trofeo F1 Rookie

    Feb 4, 2013
    4,426
    City of Angels
    Full Name:
    101 aki

    Reverting to the original ECU should not present an issue if you leave all the exhaust parts stock, exhaust valve controller can stay.

    Very best
     
  5. 458trofeo

    458trofeo F1 Rookie

    Feb 4, 2013
    4,426
    City of Angels
    Full Name:
    101 aki
    LOL, Captain you have a one of a kind Spider for a one of kind owner :D
    xoxoxoxo
     
  6. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 12, 2007
    8,935
    If you can insert the pops on a 12+, the next feat is getting that AND the faster shift sw from coupe 12+ to a spider.

    That would be fantastic.

    Note....speciales have some internal engine hw that 458's don't have. Apparently.
     
  7. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 31, 2001
    3,493
    Full Name:
    Cavallo
    EXCELLENT!!
     
  8. OpenFlash Performance

    Mar 3, 2016
    187
    SF Bay, CA
    Full Name:
    Shiv Pathak
    With ECU remapping, we can control things like torque reduction during the shift and how quickly torque is restored after the shift. This would effect subjective shift force. But improving the speed of the shift is going to require a reflash of the TCU (transmission control unit) which is something we have not done yet. But it's likely the whatever updates the factory has done to effect the shift, has not actually made the shift quicker. Instead, they changed how the engine behaves during the shift process. That would be easy to retrofit.
     
  9. Azzuro Blue

    Azzuro Blue Karting

    Feb 23, 2006
    241
    West Palm, FL
  10. Labman

    Labman F1 Rookie

    Jun 25, 2010
    3,774
    Long Island, NY
    Full Name:
    Steve
    +1. Please!
     
  11. OpenFlash Performance

    Mar 3, 2016
    187
    SF Bay, CA
    Full Name:
    Shiv Pathak
    #136 OpenFlash Performance, Feb 13, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2017
    Hi guys,
    Just left for a short 3 day trip to Hawaii with my wife. Back in the office on Thursday. I took some GoPro video last night. I'll have to edit and upload it to YouTube when I get back. I have learned a bit more about exhaust valve control. I have mapped the tables so that you get nice loud (and sustained) burbles in both Rain/sport and Race/CST modes. The former will have a nice quiet exhaust note during casualty driving in AT mode. But go paddle mode and get revs up a bit (above 3k RPM) and you get burbles for days. In Race/CST mode, you get the same burbles but the exhaust valves are always open so the exhaust note during cruise and partial throttle is louder.

    Compared to original 2010 ECU calibration, my set up burbles louder since the exhaust valves are open under deceleration. The OEM calibration closed them almost immediately upon throttle closure. I also extended the fuel cut delay from the original 1 second (0 second in updated OEM software) to a max value of 2.55 seconds. So the duration of my burbling is significantly longer. This is with stock exhaust, stock cats and stock headers. Cat bypass pipes and headers will be installed next week. I'm curious how much louder it will be. The nice thing is that I can control the volume of the burbles through fuel/timing mapping just in case the burbles get too loud with a full aftermarket exhaust. I also disabled the catalyst warm-up routine that made my cold car feel grumpy with rough shifts for the first 120 seconds of operation. So know the cold engine starts up and idle smoothly at 1400rpm for a couple seconds and then drops to 1200rpm and slowly decays to 700rpm as it fully warms ups. No longer do I need to start and idle the car for 2 minutes before driving first thing in the morning. And I picked up a nice chunch of power on the dyno as well. This is a great platform to tune.
     
  12. maxvonauto

    maxvonauto Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    May 23, 2015
    159
    Corona
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Your approach is quite reasonable in my opinion. In fact, back when we didn't have the tools we do today "tricking" the system was one of the few options available if a tuner wanted to add a turbo or supercharger. Simple solutions like faking the air intake or engine temp to enrich the mixture were fairly common. Piggyback modules which intercepted the applicable sensor signal and modified it before it was read by the ECU worked reasonably well. However, most had very limited range and didn't anticipate the learning and self checking/monitoring functions of more modern ECUs.

    If the ECU saw, for example, a richer than programmed mixture (via O2 sensors) it would simply "learn" to apply less fuel effectively defeating the workaround tune. In addition, there are many algorithms within modern ECU which are designed to identify conditions that are physically impossible or from a design standpoint undesirable. If identified, most ECUs will throw a CEL or worse.

    For example, there's probably some code that says "if the engine or intake air temps change more than X degrees in X amount of time something must be wrong, so generate a CEL or go into limp mode". This isn't to make tuners mad, but to protect the engine.

    Modern ECUs and their support systems are VERY SMART and wonders of engineering. They allow the design engineers to comply with strict emissions and have performance as well. Today, the only viable way to modify the OEM design engineers intent is to use the same programming versatility that made the system so good to start with. That means modifying the applicable code inside the ECU along with any self check code if present.

    Of course the OEM doesn't want you messing with their code for a variety of reasons, so they're making it tougher and tougher to get around the security measures built into the system. But just like any other software security system, the hackers are always nipping at their heels and in some cases one step ahead so don't fear. The Federally mandated laws regarding the incorporation of a standard communication protocol for "basic" troubleshooting and monitoring provides the perfect front door.

    A bit outside the discussion here, but just think about all the systems that are now "computer" controlled. Steering, brakes, engine, etc. The kicker is that all these systems "talk" to each other over the CAN network and can be accessed from an outside source through the infotainment system. In other words, a hacker can literally take remote control of many modern vehicles. That's a terrorist threat in my mind. Think about the possible chaos of massive traffic wreaks around our major cities! Scary.
     
  13. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 31, 2001
    3,493
    Full Name:
    Cavallo
    This all sounds outstanding. I'm excited. I'm going to proceed with purchase of a car, based almost entirely on my trust in your ability to do this. I've been holding out for a 2010/2011 original-ECU Italia. But I've gained enough trust in your ability to do this to proceed with a newer Italia without factory burbles, and it will be coming your way for a burble-tune. Can't wait.

    Mahalo for your excellent, detailed posts. Aloha from Hawaii. :) :)

    Looking forward to working with you.
     
  14. Azzuro Blue

    Azzuro Blue Karting

    Feb 23, 2006
    241
    West Palm, FL
    Max-Thanks for a very nice discussion of an ECU workaround and the reasons why it probably would not work. Very helpful and informative!
     
  15. 458trofeo

    458trofeo F1 Rookie

    Feb 4, 2013
    4,426
    City of Angels
    Full Name:
    101 aki
    Thanks for all the info Shiv!

    Could you kindly send us a link to the website of your company?

    Thanks & best!
     
  16. OpenFlash Performance

    Mar 3, 2016
    187
    SF Bay, CA
    Full Name:
    Shiv Pathak
    Ellig- nice... Good luck with the car search! Let me know when you get it. You live in Hawaii? We just landed in Honolulu.

    458trofeo- my pleasure. The link to our website is in my sig below :)
     
  17. 458trofeo

    458trofeo F1 Rookie

    Feb 4, 2013
    4,426
    City of Angels
    Full Name:
    101 aki
    Thanks Shiv! xoxo
     
  18. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 31, 2001
    3,493
    Full Name:
    Cavallo
    Only during the winter :) :) Are you staying in Honolulu or hopping over to another island?
     
  19. OpenFlash Performance

    Mar 3, 2016
    187
    SF Bay, CA
    Full Name:
    Shiv Pathak
    #144 OpenFlash Performance, Feb 13, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Just staying on Waikiki. My wife and I like to surf and northern CA water is too cold and shark infested for us :)
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  20. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 31, 2001
    3,493
    Full Name:
    Cavallo
    We're in Maui, otherwise we'd have you over for a drink! :)

    I think North Shore will be getting a new swell in the next day or two, if you're into the super big stuff..... :)

    (You just missed the Volcom Pipe Pro that wrapped up at Pipeline last week, by the way.... Good stuff as always! Surprised to see Kelly Slater get eliminated in Round 1.)

    Aloha....

    (sorry, off topic I know)
     
  21. MikeA

    MikeA Karting

    Nov 23, 2004
    171
    Los Gatos
    #146 MikeA, Feb 13, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2017
  22. Wantochamole

    Wantochamole Karting

    Apr 4, 2012
    124
    Chicago, IL
    Full Name:
    Phil W.
    Love that my 458 has the original mapping. So so so loud and love the gurgles and pops when downshifting and braking. Wouldn't want it any other way.
     
  23. 458trofeo

    458trofeo F1 Rookie

    Feb 4, 2013
    4,426
    City of Angels
    Full Name:
    101 aki
    +1 :)

    If I am counting right that is our 16th original ecu car on the Forum! :)

    Any more? Any more?

    xoxoxo
     
  24. bgmix

    bgmix Formula Junior
    Owner

    Aug 1, 2009
    612
    AZ|NYC|FL
    Full Name:
    Bob Giammarco
    Wish mine did! looking forward to what Shiv comes up with...
     
  25. AlfistaPortoghese

    AlfistaPortoghese Moderator
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 18, 2014
    3,778
    Europe, but not by much.
    Full Name:
    Nuno
    Never thought there would be so many of us! :D

    I'm very happy to learn that we're at least 16. It's important to have a good sample of original ECU cars, at least until there's a definitive, proven and easy method to restore original pops and crackles to each and every owner that wants them back.

    Kind regards,

    Nuno.
     

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