Best & most reliable driver: 365GT 2+2 vs 365 GTC/4 | FerrariChat

Best & most reliable driver: 365GT 2+2 vs 365 GTC/4

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by davemqv, Feb 15, 2017.

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  1. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

    Aug 28, 2014
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    I've been lurking and quietly searching for the "right" 365 GT 2+2 for a while. I've seen one or two that seemed ideal, but the stars haven't always aligned. But I'm in no hurry so it's fine. Enjoying learning as I look.

    However, while I'm in love with the looks of the 365GT QM, I've also always loved the Daytona. Two cars representing two different eras with totally different vibes, but it's recently occurred to me that maybe the 365GTC/4 might be the best of both worlds? It doesn't have the holdover styling of the elegant 60's Ferrari's, but it does have a lot in common aesthetically with a Daytona coupe, and it's got the 70's supercar GT vibe in spades. It's also a full 16.7 inches shorter than the GT 2+2! One of the things that has always made me a bit unsure of the QM is it's usability as an "around town" driver due to it's size. But while I've had a drive in the QM (which was amazing!) I've never ridden in or driven a GTC/4.

    So bottom line, I want a car that I can drive a lot. How do the QM and the GTC/4 compare in terms of reliability, driveability, gremlins, and cost of maintenance? Has anyone here owned both? I'd love to hear pros and cons.

    Even better, anyone in the NYC area own one and want to take me for a ride? ;)

    Thanks,
    Dave
     
  2. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

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    #2 miurasv, Feb 15, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
    2 more camshafts to look after and 6 more harder to get at side draught Weber carburettor chokes to keep in tune on the 365 GTC/4 over the 365 GT 2+2. Lovely looking car though.
     
  3. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 5, 2002
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    I've been looking for a C/4 or possibly a 365GT/4 to add, alongside my 365GT. I think that from a driving experience, they would be very different-- even though they are only a few years apart in age, it's like they are from different eras.

    From a maintenance point of view. I'm pretty sure the C/4 would be more than the 365GT. As always, though, condition of the individual car probably makes more of a difference than differences between the models.

    There do seem to be a lot of C/4s on the market right now. A few months ago, FML had 9 or 10 365GTs, and now it's down to, I think, 2, but there are still quite a few C/4s. There are almost no 365GT/4s on the market-- a red one at Gullwing, and a few in Europe.

    None of them are great around town cars. I worry a bit about parallel parking my 365GT, because it has so little protection-- especially in the front. A C/4 is a little bit better in that respect.
     
  4. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    Dec 28, 2005
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    +1
     
  5. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    Hi Don,

    How does the QM feel in terms of length around town to you? Does it feel huge? I had a ride in one years ago that really blew my mind (it was so fast and pulled like crazy!) but that was mostly freeway driving. As I've come closer to really buying one I've started questioning how it would handle around town....it's over 16ft long!

    The C/4 is almost exactly the same size in every dimension as my Mondial, although the Mondial actually has a longer wheelbase and is mid engined, so it may very well handle better than a C/4.

    As for the market, I think a lot of dealers are pulling their cars right now to avoid the appearance of things just sitting. The market seems to be cooling and as always I think 4 seaters take the first hit. There was a nice dark blue QM at Fantasy Junction that just vanished from their site, but it has done so twice before and then reappeared a few months later at a lower price. Prices on QM's have (mostly) dropped from mid $300k to $225-$250k, and many sit for a long time. C/4's are all over the place in terms of price. Some for $200k, and the Sergio Pininfarina owned car #14419 that was just totally redone by Fast Cars for which they're asking $400k obo. I've seen that car in person. It's a stunner. But the rebuild bill from Fast Cars was apparently over $130k, which makes me nervous that these cars cost a lot to maintain. Would make sense as they're the same engine as a Daytona, which I've always heard are extra expensive to keep on the road.
     
  6. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie

    Aug 13, 2002
    3,799
    Santa Fe, NM
    I have driven and worked on both. I wasn't that put off by the valve adjustment/carb tuning job on the C/4; and once it is set up, you shouldn't need to mess with it for a long time.

    You really need to decide what driving experience you want; they are very different cars in that regard. There's nothing like doing a road trip in the QM; you're driving in a sumptuous living room w/ all the right noises (I know I am preaching to the choir!). The C/4 feels like the next generation of car, and while the 2-cam QM engine sounds great, the C/4 takes it to a whole new level. I used to drive my friend's C/4 through an Interstate tunnel in northern Virginia, w/ windows down at 5 grand just for the religious experience. Absolutely more of a sports car feel compared to the QM.
     
  7. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    So more labour hours in the C/4. Wonder if they run well and reliably once they're sorted.
     
  8. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    Thanks Bryan. I appreciate the comparison. So in terms of "running well once it's sorted", you'd say one is about as reliable as the other?
     
  9. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

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    The gearbox is conventionally positioned and bolted to the engine on the C4 whereas the Daytona has a rear mounted Transaxle. The engine is also Wet Sumped in the C4 but Dry sumped in the Daytona. Compression ratio slightly lower on C4.
     
  10. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    Thanks Steven. I'm (obviously) not an expert in these cars so really I appreciate the tutorial regarding the differences and what that means practically for an owner..
     
  11. TTR

    TTR F1 Veteran
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    Perhaps somewhat irrelevant assesment.
    Properly sorted example of either or most other road going vintage Ferrari will not likely see enough usage for these to become a (constant?) issue to concern oneself with for many, many years or decades.
     
  12. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

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    Very relevant I would say. It may not be an issue to someone with your technical expertise. And that's the thing. Finding a properly sorted example is easier said than done!!!
     
  13. TTR

    TTR F1 Veteran
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    With due diligence can be achieved.
    My point wasn't really about finding one, but rather about the fact that all these engines are rather well engineered and constructed using fairly resilient components maintaining their adjustments for relatively well under expected operating circumstances and performance life.
    Persistent need of constant adjustments is usually an indication of some other, underlaying issues, be it mechanical failure or lack of understanding by personnel maintaining the equipment.
    Again, number of cam shafts or carburetors won't change the outcome.
     
  14. afwrench

    afwrench Formula Junior

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    Hi Dave ,PM sent, Mike
     
  15. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    Thanks Mike. Reply sent!
     
  16. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The length of the 365GT has never been an issue for me, except for parking-- and as I mentioned, I try not to parallel park it most of the time. When you're driving, it definitely drives "smaller" than it is.

    Any of the big Ferraris are really highway cars. On the open road, they are wonderful. Driving it around town is sort of like doing pattern work in a Gulfstream-- sure, it can do it, but it's not what it was made for.
     
  17. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran

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    Regarding parallel parking, the 44 ft turning circle on both cars can make it a bit difficult, though power steering on the 365's should make it a bit easier than the earlier cars.
     
  18. simon klein

    simon klein Two Time F1 World Champ
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    This is an interesting conversation,and one I had with myself in 2008.

    I was looking to add another horse to my shed to share with my 365GT4 2+2.

    After throwing around the idea of a one owner 'glass 308(which luckily I didn't..'coz I don't fit in one!),I looked into myself and front engined,carby V12 was my passion.

    In Aussie we don't have the selection that the 'State's or Europe has.

    I had a choice of C4,a Queen or a 1964 330GT 2+2.

    My decision eventually came down to..................I didn't want another Fiat!,I wanted an Enzo era car,so that was the way I went..the 330 sat in my shed until I unfortunately had to sell mid '14.

    It was an absolutely stonking car and I was really upset at having(as it happened, I needn't have sold it but I didn't know the outcome of something I'd done,at the time)to offload it.
     
  19. abilliet

    abilliet Formula Junior

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    Both lovely weekend cars. Too tiring for everyday city use .(but better than a Daytona!)
     
  20. 15765

    15765 Formula Junior

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    Take a ride in a 365GT4 2+2. You will find it the middle of both the 365GT 2+2 and the 365GTC/4. I've had a 365GT 2+2 that I didn't like and it had seats that would break your back on a 200+ mile trip, I now have a 365GTC/4 and a 365GT4 2+2 and they are both better than the 365GT 2+2.

    Chuck
     
  21. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie

    Oct 18, 2003
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    +1 from the experience of my late Father's cars there was very little difference between the 2 and 4 cam cars in this respect. if anything the 4 cams (two Daytonas ,three GTC4 and one 275GTB/4) usually ran (or run in the case of mine) better than the 2 cams.

    As to the OP's question I can't comment on the QM as I have never so much as sat in one, but the C4's are great GT cars. They were Dad's favourite Ferrari Tipo (and he owned everything from a 250SWB to a 599). He did 40,000 miles around Europe in one of them in the noughties, and actually ended up buying a second one to share the mileage out. They never left him stranded on the side of the road (unlike one of his 550's).

    His main gripes with the car were both had a slight whine in 5th gear around 70-80 mph which got a little wearing if you didn't turn the radio up on a long journey and the seats are thin and lack support. He actually swapped in a set of 348 seats for a while.
     
  22. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    Thanks for the input everyone.
     
  23. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    I generally agree but I still do not like the C4 engine family as well. Also, not sure you have ever had the experience but C4 can vapor lock on hot days badly. I was coming down the central valley on a summer afternoon from Oregon and stopped for gas in the Redding area. It was a while before I got it lit off again and I suspect that is worse now with what passes for gasoline.

    Never cared for the carbs or the cam drive in C4.
     
  24. SCantera

    SCantera F1 Veteran
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    Aug 4, 2004
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    Bryan....when the subject of driving a C/4 I say exactly the same albeit a different tunnel. In 3rd gear at 5000 RPM I can't think of a better howl than the sound that emanates from the C/4. I have driven 3....my Dads...one we shared and one I bought later in life.

    The C/4 is a very friendly driver. When my GTC suffered alternator failure the day before my wedding my Dad lent me his C/4 for my driving honeymoon [almost 40 years ago!]. We drove the car to NYC where it was parked in front of the mid-town Hilton for a couple of nights. Then a trip to the VA mountains where we encountered a light snow and drove gravel roads to a friends mountain home. In between was the Baltimore Harbor Tunnel when the C/4 sang at the top of her lungs.

    I also had a QM for about 2 years. Although it had power steering the car definitely feels more vintage than the C/4. The power steering felt dated and the turning radius a mile and a half. Cooling was an issue in heat and traffic.

    From an aesthetic view I like the QM more. Very classic curves. The C/4 was an attempt at the new modern look just beginning in the early 70s period for Ferrari. I never was a fan of the rubber "ubangi lips" bumper on the nose. A C/4 in black or dark blue works okay as the bumper blends with the body a bit better.

    As far as frequent driver....C/4 for sure. Not sure about daily though......
     
  25. greg512tr

    greg512tr Formula Junior
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    Feb 19, 2002
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    Greg B
    My c/4 received a platinum award at Cavallino and I drove it home to Dallas. Got iced in for 2 nights in Pensecola but when the interstate opened up I had it to myself in the morning and cruised at 90 mph for hours. After some sightseeing along the way I had over 1,500 miles on the trip home with the only issue a slight oil leak that a clamp and hose from Autozone rectified. Longest trip I ever took in the 365GT was 300 miles but it was comfortable as well but it does not have the modern feel that the c/4 does.

    My recomendation is anything over 1,500 miles I would definately take the c/4:)
     

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