Aftermarket manifolds on but still not happy

I don't know how the science works, but please give me a better idea of my logic here:

If the header is cracked, and introduces air into the exhaust before reaching the pre-cats, and yet it doesn't trigger a CEL, doesn't that mean the a/f mixture is still within the pre-programmed limit?

If it is within the acceptable limit, why would it cause cat failure? If cat failure can occurs within operating limits, shouldn't they change the limit to be smaller so to ensure cat failure doesn't happen?

 

The limits are pretty wide. They are designed to identify a significant failure like:

Any condition that causes the engine to run lean such as a weak fuel pump, a clogged fuel filter, or a faulty fuel pressure regulator

Any condition that causes the engine to run rich such as a mass air flow sensor, manifold absolute pressure sensor, or a faulty fuel pressure regulator

The cracked header may not throw a CEL and it's not going to cause damage within a short period of time. If you run a cracked header too long though you are exposing yourself to catalyst damage and that catalyst debris falling into the cylinder due to the unique header design of a mid engine car.

I guess I don't understand why anyone would run a known cracked header for any significant length of time given the risk to the engine and just general poor sound/ticking/leaking at start up or idle.

 

LOL

 

My 2007 F430 3-pedal car still has the original manifolds .I have them checked each year by my Ferrari dealer when I get the annual fluids changed.My car has 12,000 mi. Since so many 430 manifolds have failed and cracked what do you think I should do? Continue driving like I have been or consider changing them? The time frame for Ferrari to replace them at no cost to me has ended.


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smoke test them, seal off all exhaust tips bar the one thats going to pump air in, after inserting a smoke tablet, then pump air in via some sort of pump taped to an exhaust tip would be my way if I didn't remove them, as I discovered it's far easier to smoke test when they are removed, I simply exhaled into the pre-cat end after I sealed off all other exits, smoke poured out of the heat shield.

 

this was a freak pre-cat failure, I never claimed the pre-cat was indestructible? every F430 on the road has or will suffer cracked manifolds at some point, the expansion issue is as common as we have belly buttons and yet they don't chuck a CEL and they don't blow the engines up, it does not happen, thats why Ferrari never recalled the model.

 

not a great advert for a repair, the welding looks very poorly quality and an awful lot of it too !!
Ferrari F430 Right Hand Exhaust Manifold

 

Don't worry about it till you hear the leak/tick at start up. It's a very distinct noise for the first 45+ seconds. Then proceed with your preferred repair shortly after.

 

I haven't been reading this thread so apologies for being late to the party. I have the S-Line exhaust with sport cats and Fabspeed headers on my 360 and everyone here is right - it is loud.

However, on my F430, I have the prototype muffled S-line system along with Fabspeed headers and it is almost as quiet as stock. I would say that it might be quieter than stock in some driving conditions but definitely not much louder than stock in the most aggressive situations. And the best part is that you still get that S-Line pitch. I have been contemplating getting the muffled tips for my 360 as well but it really is a huge improvement to quieting the volume without hurting the pitch or airflow.

 

You are incorrect. It has and still does happen. I have personal experience of an F430 spider with a pre-cat failure and severe engine damage.


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Please refer to my previous post, I don't disagree, pre-cats are not indestructible and are off topic from this thread in my view, that particular pre-cat could have been faulty? who's to say that car had a cracked manifold? if it did, how long had it been there for? 10k miles or 100 metre's before the pre-cat failure? it's far to easy to link the 2 topics.

We have to consider the reality, the real facts, cracked manifolds are as common as the ball joints issue, the stock ones fail all the time due to poor quality materials used by Ferrari, when you hear the ticking (or knocking for ball joints) its advisable to sort it out sooner rather than later, weld them, replace them, either stock or aftermarket, zero drama.

All the horror stories pedalled in the past have been proved to be utter fantasy, I say again if the cracks caused engine failure Ferrari would have been forced to act, I don't doubt that a crack in a manifold could upset a CEL reading or accelerate pre-cat wear but not to the point of engine failures on mass immediately following a crack? most cracks go undetected for months if not years, most Ferrari owners don't spend their weekends reading forums looking for things to worry about on their particular model, they use them, service when needed, not necessarily main dealer, and get someone to wash and vacuum them, they're really not interested in the nuts and bolts, so how many of this majority will ever know they have a small crack that causes a slight tick on cold start? they are likely to be putting their seatbelt on and flipping the radio channel from the annoying song that's just come on!!.

Ferrari ball joints are poor quality, thats now a given, they fail regularly on all F430's, yet people don't start scarring everyone with stories about wheels coming off at 160mph, again if that did happen Ferrari would have to recall all F430's.

I freely admit as a 1st time Ferrari owner I fell for the horror stories and made a terrible decision to buy aftermarket manifolds, it was a high price to pay, now back to repaired stock I'm very happy for now but still interested and would love to meet up with other F430 owners to hear their exhaust set ups, from scud stock manifolds to full capristo, Tubi, IPE, X-Pipe and all the hybrids, would travel the length of the country to experience them all at one event.

I've got my car on jacks in my garage, off road from winter, with the wheels/diffuser off I've cold started, listened for ticking and stuck my hands all over both manifolds before they heat up, all good and the sound is...well bloody sublime

 

Sorry but you cannot deny pre-cat failure DOES happen, DOES sometimes result in serious engine damage, DOES occur in manifolds that also show cracks and that after market manifolds are of SUPERIOR quality and CAN'T ever have pre-cat failure.

Now whilst I would agree only a small percentage of cracked manifolds also go onto have pre-cat failure it does nevertheless happen - your post denied it has ever happened. I have personal experience of it happening.

It is impossible to be categorical about the cause and effect of the headers cracking and the pre-cats failing but replacing poor quality Ferrari manifolds with superior aftermarket cat-less manifolds is a sure fire way to remove the potential problem.
The difference in quality of my Capristo manifolds compared to the stock item is simply astounding and for me well worth the expense. I should add my 16M had no pre-cats so the change on this car was simply based on fitting a far superior quality product that I feel also sounds much better.


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Just curious, are you running the stock exhaust with your Capristo headers?

There is so much discussion on this thread on the sound/tone of AP/Fabspeed headers but I'd like to learn more about the Capristo headers sound.

 

Afraid not, I actually changed the cats and muffler to Capristo first and then 12 months later changed the headers as well. Changing the headers didn't change the sound on my 16M as much as it would on a standard F430 as the stock headers on Scud/16M don't have pre-cats.






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All I'm saying is that cracked manifolds are as certain as death and tax, catastrophic engine failure relating to said crack is 1 in 1,000,000

PS, my local Indy hated the capristo manifolds, he couldn't understand why any Ferrari owner would want to drive a car waring nappies? lol

I don't personally hold such strong views, I cared a hole lot more about the incredible volume increase I experienced in my car, which others now understand. I wish capristo or AP would sort this out, surely they know how crap it sounds when changing from stock??

 

Technically the odds would be something like 1 in 120 (~100 units w/ catalyst related engine damage out of ~12,000 total F430 production)

 

Maybe a GT car would suit you better? I think a stock F430 is way too quiet.

 

If an F430 stock is to quiet then maybe you would be more suited in a pimped up Subaru?

I, like the majority, like the F430 sound as Ferrari intended.

 

1 in 120 cars? I would like proof of that? you could be right but without proof I don't buy it, all the articles I've read over 2 years plus of ownership and I've never got anywhere close to those odds from anyone in Ferrari land.

 

You are far from the majority. The aftermarket for exhausts is huge. Most that appreciate sports cars such as these appreciate the sound as intended vs muffled.

 

There are 3-5 on this forum

What % of f430 owners are online here and active? 10%?

That would mean at least 50 cases.

My production numbers are a bit high probably, so let's say somewhere around 1 in 225

That's far from 1 in 1,000,000

Good luck with your car, I think most others can make their own decisions based on this discussion

 

That's hilarious Mark I've thought the exact same thing this whole thread. I'm not sure either why dvb sounds so angry? We get it already, you think headers are too loud, why all the arguing!?

 

Aftermarket headers are even more loud on cabrio cars. My car is a coupe and therefore I think the sound volume is totally acceptable, especially if you consider the peace of mind you get with aftermarket.

However, if you care about the volume and your car is mostly a garage queen, then maybe the OEM headers is your solution. Mk2 last for at least 10 to 12k miles.

 

Well perhaps I'm angry if that's what you have taken from my 1st hand experience, I'm sat on the return train from London as I read your valued posts, spent the weekend at the Savoy Hotel for the Ferrari 50th Anniversary UK Owners Club Gala Dinner, my wife and I found ourselves smirking at an F430 driving by on the Strand today, we both said to each other, that has a Fabspeed manifold on, the noise and drone was awful and so obviously not Ferrari, so glad not to be in that silly childish immature world, Brum brum to those that tike it though, each to their own ;-)


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